Location: 8.23 Swan Song

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surlymoe
180. RE: Chat about episode 8.23 Swan Song here!
May 17 2011, 6:10 AM EDT | Post edited: May 17 2011, 6:10 AM EDT
Holy Crap I may have just changed my mind after reading 2 posts! AZNCISfan has a huge point (i guess from WW49), what if Jeanne was pissed off that Tony ruined their relationship, then in essence killed her father. And did she ever mention a brother? Ray might be the brother? Man, i think that'd be interesting, but I hope they dont' go this way. To me it's bringing back a dead story, and reeks of Reynosa brother/sister tandem like the end of last season. I'd much rather they delve into the heirarchy of NCIS, maybe some corruption up there, explain Vance's past, possibly tie it in with all this, explain Decker's insurance policy, and maybe, just maybe, kill off a secnav. Not that i condone killing. But that's the direction I'd prefer the show to go. If it comes back like this, #1 it'll be allright, but #2 I'm surprised that hasn't leaked somehow or some way. #3, Jeanne would just be a psycho, and her eyes were way too damn pretty for that. Do you find this valuable?    
AZNCISfan
AZNCISfan
181. RE: Chat about episode 8.23 Swan Song here!
May 17 2011, 6:57 AM EDT | Post edited: May 17 2011, 6:57 AM EDT
""..what if Jeanne was pissed off that Tony ruined their relationship, then in essence killed her father. And did she ever mention a brother? Ray might be the brother? Man, i think that'd be interesting, but I hope they dont' go this way. To me it's bringing back a dead story, and reeks of Reynosa brother/sister tandem like the end of last season. I'd much rather they delve into the heirarchy of NCIS, maybe some corruption up there, explain Vance's past, possibly tie it in with all this, explain Decker's insurance policy, and maybe, just maybe, kill off a secnav. Not that i condone killing. But that's the direction I'd prefer the show to go. If it comes back like this, #1 it'll be allright, but #2 I'm surprised that hasn't leaked somehow or some way. #3, Jeanne would just be a psycho, and her eyes were way too damn pretty for that"."
Jeanne was offered up a while back as P2P herself which would not be the case now given where things are at. Unless Jonas Cobb is one of the Frogs' offspring.
- Jenny's interogation with Jeanne established that she didn't go to the yaught to met Dad and left altogether shortly thereafter.
-The Frog told Ducky undercover that he had more children than Jeanne. Kort practically admitted to Fornell, Gibbs and Vance that he did the deed sanctioned by the CIA .
-Although Gibbs' sorting through Jenny's FBI file in the basement in the Judgement Day arc may seem to point to Jenny having pulled the trigger given the scratched bullet - see previous sentence however.

A long shot notion: if alive and in hiding, Jasper Sheppard might have shot the Frog for the CIA as he could get close enough to do the deed.
NCIS has reached back on occasion to the past, however, that might be implausible - S9?

Multiple layer complicity no matter what and the CIA seems to be the chef in any scenario
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weatherlywatcher49
weatherlywatcher49
182. RE: Chat about episode 8.23 Swan Song here!
May 17 2011, 11:36 AM EDT | Post edited: May 17 2011, 11:36 AM EDT
Okay, now you guys have me going back to when I first heard Abby talking about the cleanser only being sold to hospitals - I thought of Jeanne.

Rene told Ducky that he had 3 children, 2 sons and Jeanne. What if one were Jonas and the other was Ray? Ray would fit the profile while Jonas is shown actually committing murder. Rene's arms deals were run through the CIA so that could account for how the two sons got involved with the CIA - Ray as a CIA agent and Jonas in the Frankenstein program. It was because of Jenny's and Tony's investigation (NCIS) that Rene was targeted and killed. So wouldn't that explain why the killer(s) are targeting Naval officers - to get NCIS involved - and then the teams?

Having a sister that is a doctor - they might have learned some things. Also, that would explain how they got the supplies. Also, being a CIA operative, Ray would know about keeping crime scenes clean. And it would also fit as to why Ray said he wanted to protect Ziva and why Ziva is not instantly killed by Cobb. She goes into her apartment, not realizing he is there. So why, being a serial killer, didn't he just slit her throat from behind as he did the others? Why hit her over the head and knock her out? And in the promos, it appears as if Ziva is talking to someone and since the team is searching for her, I would not assume it was one of them. Ray, perhaps?

Ray could have gotten to know Ziva because he was doing the same thing Tony did - get close to someone (Ziva and Jeanne) in order to find out about the target (Tony and Rene). In doing so, he could have fallen in love with Ziva just as Tony fell in love with Jeanne. And there is something about that bathroom scene between Ray and Tony that has always bothered me. It just seemed as though Ray really hated Tony behind the smiles - could be just me, though. Although I have to say, Ray is one of the worst liason people I have ever seen.
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weatherlywatcher49
weatherlywatcher49
183. RE: Chat about episode 8.23 Swan Song here!
May 17 2011, 11:43 AM EDT | Post edited: May 17 2011, 11:43 AM EDT
cont.

Have we ever seen Ray actively involved in the case at any time? Or even heard EJ mention working with him since Ziva has found out? No.

Also, if I remember correctly, the gun that was used to kill Rene had something wrong with it so that the bullets showed little nicks or something? Isn't that why Gibbs thought Jenny killed Rene - because of the bullets and the marks? Makes me think about the bullet that Gibbs found in one of the files. He was looking at it when he heard those shots but was that a clue? Was the file Gibbs was looking at that of the operation that Jenny ran when trying to stop Rene Benoit? Since there were a lot of files and it was about covert ops - would undercover ops or ops that Jenny did not want anyone to know about (remember her reminding Gibbs of his rule that when you ran an op like that the best way to keep a secret was to tell no one - or one person if you must? And don't forget that it was Vance who led the investigation in "Internal Affairs." What if he knows more about all of this than he has let on? Remember Mike telling Gibbs that he felt as though even Vance and Kort had something cooking between them?

I know I am probably way off but I think Ziva being held hostage (or for her protection) while her team is searching for her would be interesting. Especially if Ziva knew that her team was being led into a trap and she was trying to get free to warn them while they were worried and searching for her. Just a thought. I think it would be a much better storyline than Ziva in peril once again - and it might show Ziva that she does have the strength to keep on doing what she is doing - which she questioned after Mike was killed.

Probably totally wrong but....
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AZNCISfan
AZNCISfan
184. RE: Chat about episode 8.23 Swan Song here!
May 17 2011, 12:29 PM EDT | Post edited: May 17 2011, 12:29 PM EDT
"cont.

Probably totally wrong but...."
Pardon the post edit: Nothing is far fetched with this closing arc WW49 - how many of us thought the blue eye belonged to Burley, Dunham or other NCIS agents hither and yon (I think you came up with a long shot yourself)? Still harder to believe is that the eyeball's owner is still blinking as of this moment too.

Kort, the one-eyed jacka.......CIA donkey!
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McGeek86
McGeek86
185. RE: Chat about episode 8.23 Swan Song here!
May 17 2011, 12:32 PM EDT | Post edited: May 17 2011, 12:32 PM EDT
I agree entirely about the bathroom scene. I not only got the feeling that Ray didn't like Tony but was letting Tony know how he (Ray) felt about Ziva for a specific reason. is Ray aware of there having been, possibly still some tension between Tony and Ziva. 2  out of 2 found this valuable. Do you?    
weatherlywatcher49
weatherlywatcher49
186. RE: Chat about episode 8.23 Swan Song here!
May 17 2011, 12:54 PM EDT | Post edited: May 17 2011, 12:54 PM EDT
"Pardon the post edit: Nothing is far fetched with this closing arc WW49 - how many of us thought the blue eye belonged to Burley, Dunham or other NCIS agents hither and yon (I think you came up with a long shot yourself)? Still harder to believe is that the eyeball's owner is still blinking as of this moment too.

Kort, the one-eyed jacka.......CIA donkey!"
Thank you for not calling me crazy - even though I think trying to figure out what is going to happen is making me that way. I need to just sit back and watch the episode - but it's so much fun to read other's theories and to try to have some of my own. Just wish my son was off work on more Tuesday nights so that he could watch - he might figure it out. He told me when Gibbs' phone went missing that the serial killer probably stole them - and was right. Although he thought Tony's phone had been taken by him as well - might have and then been placed at EJ's, perhaps? Long shot again since the killer seems to be relating to Gibbs.

I'm with you on Kort. He is a one-eyed Jacka**, CIA donkey, LOL. Also agree that it is hard to believe he is the one whose eye is missing. When Ducky said the man was in his 30's - I thought Kort was older than Tony and closer to Gibbs' age myself. And yes, I had mentioned Agent Krohn from "Short Fuse."

Did you notice in the last episode, when Kort is filling them on the Frankenstien program - you can see Kort's eye under the bandage - they messed up on that one.
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weatherlywatcher49
weatherlywatcher49
187. RE: Chat about episode 8.23 Swan Song here!
May 17 2011, 12:58 PM EDT | Post edited: May 17 2011, 12:58 PM EDT
"I agree entirely about the bathroom scene. I not only got the feeling that Ray didn't like Tony but was letting Tony know how he (Ray) felt about Ziva for a specific reason. is Ray aware of there having been, possibly still some tension between Tony and Ziva. "
Glad I'm not the only one that felt that way - for whatever reason. As far as Ray being aware of the tension between Tony and Ziva that is quite possible since he and Ziva have been dating for such a long time. Plus, she stressed the fact that Ray knew all about the team even though the team did not know much about Ray.

They keep saying that each member of the team will have a run in with the P2P killer. Does that include Ducky, Abby, Palmer and Vance or just the four agents, I'm wondering. And I wonder if the guy being outside Gibbs' house and the guy stealing his glasses is his "run ins" since we know the spoiler people can make you think something is intense and then be little or nothing - like Jetlag when they said we would see Tony and Ziva in Paris sharing a room and they were there for like 5 minutes and only mentioned that. Getting hit over the head is Ziva's. Since we see Tony actively looking for Ziva, I'm sure he will have a run in. Just wondering whether McGee and the others will actually come face to face with him.
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AZNCISfan
AZNCISfan
188. RE: Chat about episode 8.23 Swan Song here!
May 17 2011, 12:58 PM EDT | Post edited: May 17 2011, 1:00 PM EDT
"Thank you for not calling me crazy - even though I think trying to figure out what is going to happen is making me that way. I need to just sit back and watch the episode - but it's so much fun to read other's theories and to try to have some of my own. Just wish my son was off work on more Tuesday nights so that he could watch - he might figure it out. He told me when Gibbs' phone went missing that the serial killer probably stole them - and was right. Although he thought Tony's phone had been taken by him as well - might have and then been placed at EJ's, perhaps? Long shot again since the killer seems to be relating to Gibbs.

I'm with you on Kort. He is a one-eyed Jacka**, CIA donkey, LOL. Also agree that it is hard to believe he is the one whose eye is missing. When Ducky said the man was in his 30's - I thought Kort was older than Tony and closer to Gibbs' age myself. And yes, I had mentioned Agent Krohn from "Short Fuse."

Did you notice in the last episode, when Kort is filling them on the Frankenstien program - you can see Kort's eye under the bandage - they messed up on that one."
Re: the visible eye. Evidently a slight mix-up between the Prop and Make-up Departments?.....or?
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Sophie.B.
Sophie.B.
189. RE: Chat about episode 8.23 Swan Song here!
May 17 2011, 1:36 PM EDT | Post edited: May 17 2011, 1:36 PM EDT
I love the ideas bouncing around about a Cobb/Ray/Jeanne connection. That would make an exciting story & I would love to see Scottie Thompson play a villain (so different from her 'soft' look). I am hoping that Ray turns out to be a good guy though. I really like the actor and character and hope for a possible recurring role.

Re the promo: Is Ziva is at her own apartment ? She throws her hand up & pushes the door open as if she found it unlocked. I think she would be suspicious to find her own door unlocked. Maybe Ray is in town & she has agreed to meet & talk to him at his hotel? P2P could be there to ambush Ray & surprised when Ziva enters. Maybe thats why he doesnt kill her right away. He could either kidnap her to get to Ray or maybe Ray is involved & it was already part of the plan to take her? Either way, I think Ziva definitely has a formidable foe on her hands. The CIA/Frankenstein training is likely just as intense as her Kedon (sp?) training. In addition to his fighting skills, he has his weight/size in his favor. The only thing that might save her (other than the team of course) would be some crazy anger that might manifest itself from being restrained again (Saleem/Somalia flashbacks).

However it turns out, I am really excited about tonight ! Fingers crossed that local CBS does not decide to preempt with election coverage.
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Sophie.B.
Sophie.B.
190. RE: Chat about episode 8.23 Swan Song here!
May 17 2011, 1:43 PM EDT | Post edited: May 17 2011, 1:43 PM EDT
"I love the ideas bouncing around about a Cobb/Ray/Jeanne connection. That would make an exciting story & I would love to see Scottie Thompson play a villain (so different from her 'soft' look). I am hoping that Ray turns out to be a good guy though. I really like the actor and character and hope for a possible recurring role.

Re the promo: Is Ziva is at her own apartment ? She throws her hand up & pushes the door open as if she found it unlocked. I think she would be suspicious to find her own door unlocked. Maybe Ray is in town & she has agreed to meet & talk to him at his hotel? P2P could be there to ambush Ray & surprised when Ziva enters. Maybe thats why he doesnt kill her right away. He could either kidnap her to get to Ray or maybe Ray is involved & it was already part of the plan to take her? Either way, I think Ziva definitely has a formidable foe on her hands. The CIA/Frankenstein training is likely just as intense as her Kedon (sp?) training. In addition to his fighting skills, he has his weight/size in his favor. The only thing that might save her (other than the team of course) would be some crazy anger that might manifest itself from being restrained again (Saleem/Somalia flashbacks).

However it turns out, I am really excited about tonight ! Fingers crossed that local CBS does not decide to preempt with election coverage. "
ooh, or Ray could already be dead & wrapped as a mummy in the next room & Cobb was just on his way out when she arrived ??

So many possibilities. One hour 18 minutes to go....
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AbleAmerican
191. RE: Chat about episode 8.23 Swan Song here!
May 18 2011, 2:26 PM EDT | Post edited: May 18 2011, 2:26 PM EDT
First it was Jenny...& the "Chemistry" 'tween here & Gibbs for me was a "mainstream" on the program...Now it's Mike Franks...damn..that disappointed me cause there was that "mentor" ..probie..solidarity that WILL BE SORELY MISSED FROM THIS SHOW.."Cause it ain't gonna happen with the "new director" dude..My sentiments re: Mike Franks is a personal one...I had such a "Mike Franks" as a mentor while in the military during the Korean War..There's JUST NO WAY TO REPLACE THAT COMMRADSMANSHIP WHEN YOU KNOW "YOUR BACK" IS COVERED REGARDLESS!! The funeral send off was very moving for me..personally. I LOST a good friend when Mike was removed from the show.. 2  out of 2 found this valuable. Do you?    

azimov
192. RE: Chat about episode 8.23 Swan Song here!
Jun 5 2011, 5:40 AM EDT | Post edited: Jun 5 2011, 5:40 AM EDT
Goodbye Mike, you will be sorely missed. 2  out of 2 found this valuable. Do you?    
MrsGCallen
MrsGCallen
193. RE: Chat about episode 8.23 Swan Song here!
Jul 10 2011, 8:49 PM EDT | Post edited: Jul 10 2011, 8:49 PM EDT
Ok so i rewatched Swan Song this afternoon - im still in the process.
Anyway the scene where EJ and her team are looking at the P2P victims up on teh plasma. this is teh scene right after the scene where Vance told Gibbs that he couldl follow up on the case from Pearl.

Anyway in the background in teh scene with Team EJ we are shown The Wall. And guess who's face is covered in red tape. Yep. Osma Bin Laden.

Im pretty sure that this ep was filmed before the US got him. but when i saw this i kinda got the spooks.

Did anyone else notice this, if not go back and have a look for yourself.
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bellswebster
bellswebster
194. RE: Chat about episode 8.23 Swan Song here!
Jul 10 2011, 9:27 PM EDT | Post edited: Jul 10 2011, 9:28 PM EDT
"Ok so i rewatched Swan Song this afternoon - im still in the process.
Anyway the scene where EJ and her team are looking at the P2P victims up on teh plasma. this is teh scene right after the scene where Vance told Gibbs that he couldl follow up on the case from Pearl.

Anyway in the background in teh scene with Team EJ we are shown The Wall. And guess who's face is covered in red tape. Yep. Osma Bin Laden.

Im pretty sure that this ep was filmed before the US got him. but when i saw this i kinda got the spooks.

Did anyone else notice this, if not go back and have a look for yourself. "
I believe the red tape on the photo scene was added later.
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patriciaenola
patriciaenola
195. RE: Chat about episode 8.23 Swan Song here!
Apr 18 2012, 9:02 PM EDT | Post edited: Apr 18 2012, 9:02 PM EDT
"Goodbye Mike, you will be sorely missed."
Yes indeed azimov - I believe in the old saying
"Greater love hath no man - that he give up his life for his friend"
I think we are supposed to see that Mike Franks set himself up deliberately - but hoping to present Jethro with a captive - but it just did not transpire. Oops - where am I going with this - back track - tell myself it's only an actor - he is not really gone to the Great Squad Room in the Sky - maybe he will be back - when Jethro gets to thinking - Mike would like this...............
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ChrisAlthouse
196. RE: Chat about episode 8.23 Swan Song here!
Jun 6 2012, 9:09 PM EDT | Post edited: Jun 7 2012, 1:14 AM EDT
One thing that I liked about this episode (though I've never been quite a fan of the P2P saga personally) is the surreal way in which it played. It's interesting seeing Gibbs talking to a "ghost" version of Mike Franks, and thought it was a very tasteful send-off for someone who really was a sort-of "Gibb's Gibbs", if you will. Mike Franks will be quite missed, of course... R.I.P. Franks, thanks for everything you've done. This is an episode that does a wonderful job at showing the real emotional connections within the cast, they aren't just a bunch of kooky, somewhat silly "Gibbettes", here we see that they are a real family, deeply affected by the tragic loss of one of their own (Mike Franks). 0  out of 1 found this valuable. Do you?    
Sorgiña
Sorgiña
198. RE: Chat about episode 8.23 Swan Song here!
Jun 6 2012, 11:06 PM EDT | Post edited: Jun 6 2012, 11:06 PM EDT
" Side note: I've never been all that crazy about the various boyfriends that Ziva has found herself involved with. How many of them have to break her heart, or threaten her physically, or BOTH, before she realizes what is there in front of her face. Granted, this violates a Gibb's rule for sure, but I think DiNozzo and Ziva have quite an interesting chemistry that might actually work if pursued further. All jokes aside, I know that DiNozzo would protect her at all costs, and she's the type that might just be able to bring some maturity to some of his "frat-boy" ways. Wonder what Gibbs was like, before he met his first wife? I would imagine he probably a lot like DiNozzo now... just saying. (Ziva DiNozzo has kind of a ring to it...)

Wonder if anyone else might agree?..."
Please stay on topic. This side note to a posting is totally irrelevant and best left for other threads. Thank you.
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ChrisAlthouse
199. RE: Chat about episode 8.23 Swan Song here!
Jun 7 2012, 1:16 AM EDT | Post edited: Jun 7 2012, 1:16 AM EDT
"Please stay on topic. This side note to a posting is totally irrelevant and best left for other threads. Thank you."
Thanks for informing me, you'll notice that I have made the requested changes... :)
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