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Discussion: Vance Outlasting Jenny
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SpecialWindler |
Vance Outlasting Jenny
Dec 14 2010, 5:21 AM EST
My blog entry for today:http://cbsncis.wetpaint.com/page/SpecialWindler%27s+Fan+Blog+24 Any feedback/discussion would be great. 1 out of 1 found this valuable. Do you?
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sammysoso |
1. RE: Vance Outlasting Jenny
Dec 14 2010, 2:42 PM EST
Good points, to me, Jenny never really felt like she was a DIRECTOR, just another part of the team, Vance maintains the proffesional distance that he should. I look forward to Vance being around for a while.Really, the only thing I disagree with in your blog is your praising of ED, to me, the sloppy handling of the Israeli storyine has that episode a bottom-feeder in my list. 0 out of 3 found this valuable. Do you? |
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SpecialWindler |
2. RE: Vance Outlasting Jenny
Dec 14 2010, 6:06 PM EST
Ah, we all have our likes and dislikes. I quite enjoyed the two-parter. True, the 2nd episode had little of the Israeli story in it, but I thought it was quite intriguing and very well done.
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gottahavemyncis |
3. RE: Vance Outlasting Jenny
Dec 14 2010, 9:41 PM EST
"My blog entry for today:Love your blog, SW! I agree with your opinion of the 2 directors, I started out liking Jenny and ended up confused and disliking her - and couldn't see a way out of the Frog debacle. Vance was the opposite - started out disliking him and have slowly warmed up to him, I just had one little corner that wasn't convinced, but after ED, I'm now a Vance fan. Rocky Carroll does a phenomenal job! And I too loved both Enemies Domestic & Foreign. 4 out of 4 found this valuable. Do you? |
AgentPeaches |
4. RE: Vance Outlasting Jenny
Jan 28 2011, 5:26 PM EST
"Love your blog, SW! I agree with your opinion of the 2 directors, I started out liking Jenny and ended up confused and disliking her - and couldn't see a way out of the Frog debacle. Vance was the opposite - started out disliking him and have slowly warmed up to him, I just had one little corner that wasn't convinced, but after ED, I'm now a Vance fan. Rocky Carroll does a phenomenal job! And I too loved both Enemies Domestic & Foreign. "I agree with you completely on Vance! I started out disliking him 1) because I was a bitter Jenny fan and 2) because the first thing he did was split up the team, which was only forgivable when we found out why he did it. I started liking him more and more until ED pushed me over completely and now I'm a fan. I loved Jenny in season three and then the frog thing was a mess. I miss her but her character had changed and there wasn't a good way back, I just wish her death had been handled differently. I want Vance to last long. To me, if he did leave soon, it would be a sign of tacky writing, trying to shake up the cast without actually changing a team member. Directors of federal agencies are not disposable. I like the earlier point about Jenny just acting like one of the team. Gibbs even says, in JD I think, "The team lost a member, Leon." Jenny's role was as one of the team, Vance's is as a director who friends with Gibbs but still professional. As much as I loved Jibbs, Vance is so refreshing! He has, like, a happy life! And a family! THat's alive! HOORAY! 4 out of 4 found this valuable. Do you? |
bellswebster |
5. RE: Vance Outlasting Jenny
Jan 29 2011, 5:02 AM EST
Yes, I have come to like Vance. The day he hid that file for Gibbs won me completely. I feel there is a lot more to know and that can be done with Vance. He is a bit of a mystery right now with the Eli storyline and I am enjoying it emensley.
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AgentPeaches |
6. RE: Vance Outlasting Jenny
Jan 29 2011, 2:03 PM EST
"Yes, I have come to like Vance. The day he hid that file for Gibbs won me completely. I feel there is a lot more to know and that can be done with Vance. He is a bit of a mystery right now with the Eli storyline and I am enjoying it emensley."Oh, me too! He's become a fascinating, sympathetic character. I started liking him when he was chasing the Korean operative last year, and was impressed with his behavior during the Mexico storyline. (Yelling at Gibbs, then it turned out it was part of a plan.) I might have liked him sooner if I had actually watched the mole hunt arc (only saw it recently) because he's pretty cool there, too. I have forgotten which file he hid and when... Which is embarrassing but I want to remember so could someone refresh my memory? I was pretty bad about missing details during season 7, if that's when it was. 1 out of 1 found this valuable. Do you? |
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gottahavemyncis |
7. RE: Vance Outlasting Jenny
Jan 29 2011, 3:12 PM EST
"Oh, me too! He's become a fascinating, sympathetic character. I started liking him when he was chasing the Korean operative last year, and was impressed with his behavior during the Mexico storyline. (Yelling at Gibbs, then it turned out it was part of a plan.) I might have liked him sooner if I had actually watched the mole hunt arc (only saw it recently) because he's pretty cool there, too.That's ok, easy enough to forget! it was Abby's report on the killing of Pedro Hernandez - from the last episode of the Mexican cartel arc - the Season 8 opener, "The Spider & the Fly". In the last part we see Vance putting the file with the report into a "cold storage" box. 2 out of 2 found this valuable. Do you? |
shadowolfhunter |
8. RE: Vance Outlasting Jenny
Jan 29 2011, 7:41 PM EST
I have to admit I am deeply suspicious of Vance. I think, in his own way, he is as motivated by ambition as Eli David. Where he differs from David, is that he isn't quite prepared to have his own killed to further his ambition. But if they died in service of his cause du jour, he would be more pragmatic than caring.I am only on episode 4 of season 7, so I am prepared to cut him some slack but so far, I wouldn't be trusting him based on his current performance. All that said, he is a much more interesting character than Jenny. I went through spurts of liking her then disliking her. Some of the stuff she used to pull I found really irritating. Once the Frog popped up, she became very one note, and I didn't like her personal vengeance crusade. 1 out of 1 found this valuable. Do you? |
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AgentPeaches |
9. RE: Vance Outlasting Jenny
Jan 30 2011, 12:16 AM EST
"That's ok, easy enough to forget! it was Abby's report on the killing of Pedro Hernandez - from the last episode of the Mexican cartel arc - the Season 8 opener, "The Spider & the Fly". In the last part we see Vance putting the file with the report into a "cold storage" box. "Ahhh yes, I remember cheering for him in that scene now! Spider and the Fly was kind of a blur for me because this is only my second season and I was in my "OMGNCISisfinallybackyayz" mood. 1 out of 1 found this valuable. Do you? |
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AgentPeaches |
10. RE: Vance Outlasting Jenny
Jan 30 2011, 12:23 AM EST
"All that said, he is a much more interesting character than Jenny. I went through spurts of liking her then disliking her. Some of the stuff she used to pull I found really irritating. Once the Frog popped up, she became very one note, and I didn't like her personal vengeance crusade."I actually think Jenny was at least as interesting as Vance sometimes, but not always. I liked Jenny at first, then the Frog thing was horrible, but because I watched these all out of order after the fact I didn't get as upset and since she started getting better again I still liked her. With Vance it was the opposite, I didn't like him, then I was okay with him, now I really like him. I was so worried he was going to die in ED. I had visions of some kind of "kill the director before he/she can exceed three seasons on the show" pattern or something. I can speculate wildly if I'm forced to wait a WHOOOOOOOOOOOOLE WEEK for the resolution of a story, which naturally is what happens. I'm just crazy. :P I really hope Vance sticks around. One reason I prefer Ziva to Kate (This is on topic, be patient) is that Kate was kind of the straight man and the team doesn't really need one, but having Vance take on that role a bit as the director suits the show well. (Ha, I said I'd be on topic!) I am a little suspicious of Vance's relationship with Eli, but less so since that season 7 episode (I think it was Good Cop, Bad Cop, all the ones that deal with post-Somalia blend together for me) when he tells Eli on the phone that he knows Gibbs is difficult and he'll deal with him.... then the camera pans over and shows Gibbs sitting there and Vance hangs up and it's clear Gibbs knows he's trying to appease Eli. 2 out of 2 found this valuable. Do you? |
calilady |
11. RE: Vance Outlasting Jenny
Feb 12 2011, 11:57 PM EST
"Ah, we all have our likes and dislikes. I quite enjoyed the two-parter. True, the 2nd episode had little of the Israeli story in it, but I thought it was quite intriguing and very well done."I totally agree with you, SW. Originally it was difficult for me to trust and be comfortable with Vance, but as the stories have evolved (especially starting with the one with Kai - he became much more vulnerable, human, and multidimensional as a character), I have definitely seen him as a strong part of the NCIS family, with a special part to play of his own. He has different boundaries as the director, but has defined himself well as a team player as well as being necessarily a step away from being "a member of the team". But he has their back and believes in them, and backs up Gibbs (his support in the first episode of Season 8 of Gibbs had me). Do you find this valuable? |
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AgentPeaches |
12. RE: Vance Outlasting Jenny
Feb 13 2011, 11:17 AM EST
The original Vance, like in early season 6, didn't have much of a character and mostly existed to get in the way. But then he began to change, I think as the writers decided what they wanted to do with him. I loved the episode with Kai, and I think everyone must have breathed a hug sigh of relief when it ended there and didn't turn into a several season storyline a la Grenouille. I loved everything Vance did during the Mexico storyline. It looked like he was truly angry at Gibbs during one of the episodes, then it turned out it was part of a plan. And hiding the file totally sealed the deal. The "Enemies" episodes showed that Vance and Gibbs have a kind of friendship, even if they did meet over a danish. Vance now is a sympathetic, deep, interesting, likable character. Vance outlasting Jenny also makes a lot of sense if you look at their professional styles. Jenny was more of a sprinter, she went to the top so fast but she didn't take care of herself and started losing her mind and everything. Vance was a little bit slower (not a lot though) but has a happy life and marriage and his two kids. Do you find this valuable? |
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jenandthekittenkid |
13. RE: Vance Outlasting Jenny
Mar 1 2011, 9:29 PM EST
"My blog entry for today:I like Vance better than Jenny what I have seen so far. He seems to be a very strong leader, objective, understands when Gibbs does something he' s not supposed to. Jenny was too emotional to be a good leader. She relied too much on Gibbs and makes you wonder why Gibbs wasn't the director instead of Jenny. 1 out of 1 found this valuable. Do you? |
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AgentPeaches |
14. RE: Vance Outlasting Jenny
Mar 1 2011, 11:42 PM EST
Easy, Gibbs wasn't director for two reasons. One, he didn't want to be, and two, as Morrow said "I won't shoot NCIS in the head." He's not political enough. Gibbs relied on Jenny too, she helped him with cases sometimes. What her emotions meant for the quality of her leadership is a complicated question, however I (as a Jenny fan, no less) can admit that I think Vance is a better leader. He's much balanced and he trusts Gibbs, but Gibbs had to earn that trust. Jenny seemed to let Gibbs get away with murder because of her unresolved personal issues with him. Vance has seen Gibbs and the team prove themselves, and reacted accordingly. I think Vance generally has a more rational, objective approach, which will help him in the long run. Jenny threw all her emotions into the mix and rose quickly but was dangerously unstable.
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jenandthekittenkid |
15. RE: Vance Outlasting Jenny
Mar 2 2011, 12:33 AM EST
"Easy, Gibbs wasn't director for two reasons. One, he didn't want to be, and two, as Morrow said "I won't shoot NCIS in the head." He's not political enough. Gibbs relied on Jenny too, she helped him with cases sometimes. What her emotions meant for the quality of her leadership is a complicated question, however I (as a Jenny fan, no less) can admit that I think Vance is a better leader. He's much balanced and he trusts Gibbs, but Gibbs had to earn that trust. Jenny seemed to let Gibbs get away with murder because of her unresolved personal issues with him. Vance has seen Gibbs and the team prove themselves, and reacted accordingly. I think Vance generally has a more rational, objective approach, which will help him in the long run. Jenny threw all her emotions into the mix and rose quickly but was dangerously unstable."You stated exactly what I did with 4032 words more than I used!! Perfect example why women are bad leaders...too wordy, emotional, no thanks. Jen died and the only thing that made that sad was because she was a Gibbs fling in France! Nobody cried because a good leader died! People cried because Gibbs lost his fling/flame/potential significant other. Isn't all trust everywhere in this world well earned before given?? So Vance and Gibbs are different where?? They aren't. 0 out of 3 found this valuable. Do you? |
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AgentPeaches |
16. RE: Vance Outlasting Jenny
Mar 2 2011, 3:24 PM EST
"You stated exactly what I did with 4032 words more than I used!! Perfect example why women are bad leaders...too wordy, emotional, no thanks. Jen died and the only thing that made that sad was because she was a Gibbs fling in France! Nobody cried because a good leader died! People cried because Gibbs lost his fling/flame/potential significant other. Isn't all trust everywhere in this world well earned before given?? So Vance and Gibbs are different where?? They aren't. "Sorry about the words, I'm wordy at the best of times and I was running on very little sleep. I remember Jenny as a good leader. She became a different character entirely later on, but in her first season you could see why she was director. I didn't cry because Gibbs lost his love interest, I cried because I loved Jenny as a character. I don't believe women are bad leaders in general, that feels very sexist to me. But women aren't all good leaders either. Not all trust is well-earned. People often decide to trust someone with no evidence. Jenny trusted Gibbs because of their past. That was earned in a sense, because Gibbs had already proven Jenny could trust him. Vance hadn't had that proof, though, so he had to see for himself. I do think Vance is a better leader because he didn't use the agency to deal with a personal vendetta. However, he didn't have such a big personal agenda to deal with. I used lots of words again. Sorry 'bout that. 1 out of 1 found this valuable. Do you? |
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shadowolfhunter |
17. RE: Vance Outlasting Jenny
Mar 12 2011, 5:09 AM EST
"You stated exactly what I did with 4032 words more than I used!! Perfect example why women are bad leaders...too wordy, emotional, no thanks. Jen died and the only thing that made that sad was because she was a Gibbs fling in France! Nobody cried because a good leader died! People cried because Gibbs lost his fling/flame/potential significant other. Isn't all trust everywhere in this world well earned before given?? So Vance and Gibbs are different where?? They aren't. "Sorry, but that is complete nonsense. The only postwar leader of any gumption that this country has ever had was a woman. At present, I consider Vance as untrustworthy. There is another agenda going on. He puts politics before his people. Personally, I did not like Jenny as a leader because she did not know what side of the fence she wanted to be on. She interfered, she micro-managed, and she undermined. All bad traits in a leader. Do you find this valuable? |
