Location: 8.07 Broken Arrow

Discussion: Discuss episode 8.07 Broken Arrow here!Reported This is a featured thread

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Snoopmary
Snoopmary
42. RE: Discuss episode 8.07 Broken Arrow here!
Nov 9 2010, 11:37 PM EST | Post edited: Nov 9 2010, 11:37 PM EST
I think the writing was not nearly as good as FLESH & BLOOD. I think they are trying to rewrite the relationship into something too 'oh, that Tony. Freaking out over his father again.' And I think Abby was a tad obtuse to say that Tony was being too judgmental. Just because she has daddy issues with both the dead one and the pseudo-dad doesn't mean that it's okay for her to invalidate Tony's feelings on the matter. And Gibbs' being super-distant and unsupportive of Tony? Not so good. After the great Gibbs-DiNozzo moment at the end of FLESH & BLOOD, I was hoping for more of that. Yeah, great, Gibbs went and confronted Senior. But that doesn't explain why he was so 'meh' towards Tony's concerns/panic about putting his father into a dangerous situation. As someone said, I can't see Gibbs being so willing to put his own father in the same position.

Yet I think where the discordancy is found is in the divergence between the great team moments (the dumpster-diving, Gibbs fixing Ducky's tie) and the rest of the episode. Which is a shame, because the story-line had real potential. Had they focused on the case and the non-comedic side of the relationship between the DiNozzos, rather than the 'chicken little' freak-out' of Tony's (which I still think was meant to show Senior as some cool, classy conman), I think it would have worked better as a whole.

I still don't have an answer re: Why did Senior call at 4.30AM?

He got a ride into the city at 3AM with the corpse. Where was he for those intervening hours? And surely he noticed the guy he was cabbing it with checking his six repeatedly?

Oh, and Ziva dear? Next time you get an order to withdraw, do not argue with the Senior Field Agent. You get captured by terrorists when you don't listen to him. Just sayin'........
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tara_persad
tara_persad
43. RE: Discuss episode 8.07 Broken Arrow here!
Nov 9 2010, 11:39 PM EST | Post edited: Nov 9 2010, 11:39 PM EST
Well, I guess they should have followed up on that. I also don't like that they just swept Ziva-got-her-passport under the mat. I thought that there would have been a little more about that :( then again I guess that isn't as important :D But I liked that scene. But they should have left out Sr calling Jr early int he morning so that Tony would have been in a better mood and maybe react differently to Ziva getting her passport - when I say react differently, I mean tease her or something like that. Do you find this valuable?    
weatherlywatcher49
weatherlywatcher49
44. RE: Discuss episode 8.07 Broken Arrow here!
Nov 9 2010, 11:39 PM EST | Post edited: Nov 9 2010, 11:39 PM EST
"I think the writing was not nearly as good as FLESH & BLOOD. I think they are trying to rewrite the relationship into something too 'oh, that Tony. Freaking out over his father again.' And I think Abby was a tad obtuse to say that Tony was being too judgmental. Just because she has daddy issues with both the dead one and the pseudo-dad doesn't mean that it's okay for her to invalidate Tony's feelings on the matter. And Gibbs' being super-distant and unsupportive of Tony? Not so good. After the great Gibbs-DiNozzo moment at the end of FLESH & BLOOD, I was hoping for more of that. Yeah, great, Gibbs went and confronted Senior. But that doesn't explain why he was so 'meh' towards Tony's concerns/panic about putting his father into a dangerous situation. As someone said, I can't see Gibbs being so willing to put his own father in the same position.

Yet I think where the discordancy is found is in the divergence between the great team moments (the dumpster-diving, Gibbs fixing Ducky's tie) and the rest of the episode. Which is a shame, because the story-line had real potential. Had they focused on the case and the non-comedic side of the relationship between the DiNozzos, rather than the 'chicken little' freak-out' of Tony's (which I still think was meant to show Senior as some cool, classy conman), I think it would have worked better as a whole.

I still don't have an answer re: Why did Senior call at 4.30AM?

He got a ride into the city at 3AM with the corpse. Where was he for those intervening hours? And surely he noticed the guy he was cabbing it with checking his six repeatedly?

Oh, and Ziva dear? Next time you get an order to withdraw, do not argue with the Senior Field Agent. You get captured by terrorists when you don't listen to him. Just sayin'........"
Very well said, Snoop.
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tara_persad
tara_persad
45. RE: Discuss episode 8.07 Broken Arrow here!
Nov 9 2010, 11:42 PM EST | Post edited: Nov 9 2010, 11:43 PM EST
"Oh, and Ziva dear? Next time you get an order to withdraw, do not argue with the Senior Field Agent. You get captured by terrorists when you don't listen to him. Just sayin'........"
What terrorists? :-S
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tara_persad
tara_persad
46. RE: Discuss episode 8.07 Broken Arrow here!
Nov 9 2010, 11:50 PM EST | Post edited: Nov 9 2010, 11:52 PM EST
I posted a spoiler then I deleted/edited it cause I was not sure if I should have done that. Anyways, it was about Tony and his dad and what was with them tonight, read all about it in the season 8 spoiler thread. Do you find this valuable?    
gottahavemyncis
gottahavemyncis
47. RE: Discuss episode 8.07 Broken Arrow here!
Nov 10 2010, 12:19 AM EST | Post edited: Nov 10 2010, 12:19 AM EST
Whooohooo, I loved this episode and I love this show, we are so lucky that we have the excellent cast, writers & crew that we do. This was great, loved every minute of it! 6  out of 6 found this valuable. Do you?    
calilady
calilady
48. RE: Discuss episode 8.07 Broken Arrow here!
Nov 10 2010, 12:49 AM EST | Post edited: Nov 10 2010, 12:49 AM EST
"Whooohooo, I loved this episode and I love this show, we are so lucky that we have the excellent cast, writers & crew that we do. This was great, loved every minute of it! "
I agree with you, gotta.
3  out of 3 found this valuable. Do you?    
calilady
calilady
49. RE: Discuss episode 8.07 Broken Arrow here!
Nov 10 2010, 1:23 AM EST | Post edited: Nov 10 2010, 1:23 AM EST
As I watched this episode, I was marvelling how the writers continue to come up with ideas and extensions of the characters that keep this show fresh and interesting. I love how Tony's character opened up with more emotional dimension; the scene at the end with his father was particularly human and often real for many people, whose parents somehow haven't conveyed effectively how much they treasure their children - and how much that matters to the child. Really beautifully played between two adult men, here - kudos to Tonys Sr and Jr. I'm also appreciating the elasticity in Gibbs' character; he doesn't stay stuck in his stances with people (eg. Tony Sr), but allows himself to respond and be changed by circumstances and key moments between himself and another - it reflects reality for a person who is still learning from and growing in life. There is also an understanding within the team members of each other that isn't explicitly spelled out in the verbal communications, but well played out as the scenes flow, and shows the strength that develops in a cohesive, well led team. I applaud the writers, directors, and the actors - well done in this episode... 7  out of 7 found this valuable. Do you?    
gottahavemyncis
gottahavemyncis
50. RE: Discuss episode 8.07 Broken Arrow here!
Nov 10 2010, 1:42 AM EST | Post edited: Nov 10 2010, 1:42 AM EST
"As I watched this episode, I was marvelling how the writers continue to come up with ideas and extensions of the characters that keep this show fresh and interesting. I love how Tony's character opened up with more emotional dimension; the scene at the end with his father was particularly human and often real for many people, whose parents somehow haven't conveyed effectively how much they treasure their children - and how much that matters to the child. Really beautifully played between two adult men, here - kudos to Tonys Sr and Jr. I'm also appreciating the elasticity in Gibbs' character; he doesn't stay stuck in his stances with people (eg. Tony Sr), but allows himself to respond and be changed by circumstances and key moments between himself and another - it reflects reality for a person who is still learning from and growing in life. There is also an understanding within the team members of each other that isn't explicitly spelled out in the verbal communications, but well played out as the scenes flow, and shows the strength that develops in a cohesive, well led team. I applaud the writers, directors, and the actors - well done in this episode... "
thanks calilady, for saying this - it's what I saw & felt too but couldn't quite get into words.
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ange1994
51. RE: Discuss episode 8.07 Broken Arrow here!
Nov 10 2010, 3:29 AM EST | Post edited: Nov 10 2010, 3:29 AM EST
"Gibbs had a talk with Sr. in his penthouse. And he talked to him again in the interrogation room, Sr. felt like he was being interrogated :( Tony didn't want his dad to stay with him, but he invited him to dinner which he turned down. Ziva understands his father. Abby understands Tony father too, saying that she wished her dad was still alive - therefore confirming that her dad is dead :( The talk Gibbs had with Tony's dad mentioned that Sr knew that Tony paid for his hotel last time and not the Prince. Sr quoted Casablanca to Gibbs."
Her dad is alive he is in the next two episodes i think.
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peachyx
52. RE: Discuss episode 8.07 Broken Arrow here!
Nov 10 2010, 6:22 AM EST | Post edited: Nov 10 2010, 6:22 AM EST
I loved this episode! It had me laughing the whole way through.
Gibbs comment about the flowers was gold. Ziva's face when Sr. took down that man and Tony found them.... that was just pure joy. You could tell Cote had a lot of fun with that scene.
Tony and McGee making Ziva do the dirty work at the start of the episode was brilliant. The end moment with Sr. and Jr. just made me happy.

I was very happy with this episode, but not overly suprised to see some negative comments over it. Each to their own of course, but I think some people are *trying* to find negative situations in NCIS episodes these days, rather than enjoying what is being put in front of them.
Kudos to the writers and the cast on an wonderful job :)
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AZNCISfan
AZNCISfan
53. RE: Discuss episode 8.07 Broken Arrow here!
Nov 10 2010, 6:34 AM EST | Post edited: Nov 10 2010, 6:34 AM EST
"It was 4.30AM - as in normal humans' sleeping time.

Why would anyone call someone at 4.30 in the morning unless it was urgent-emergency?"
He may have called from Europe. They are a bit ahead of EST all of the time. Perhaps Tony's voice-mail mentioned the words 'urgent', though not necessarily 'emergency'.
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Lyndissa
Lyndissa
54. RE: Discuss episode 8.07 Broken Arrow here!
Nov 10 2010, 6:38 AM EST | Post edited: Nov 10 2010, 6:38 AM EST
Just finished wathing this ep. I really loved it and don't know why people are finding negative things to say about it. I enjoyed it alot. Great job,cast, crew, writers and directors!!! :) 6  out of 6 found this valuable. Do you?    
rosecake
rosecake
55. RE: Discuss episode 8.07 Broken Arrow here!
Nov 10 2010, 8:21 AM EST | Post edited: Nov 10 2010, 8:24 AM EST
Sorry, this will be a long post! LOL

I finally watched the episode and, call me crazy, but, even though I'm a Tony's addict, I liked some part of it! LOL

Yes, McGee and Ziva should have been more supportive with Tony, since they knew about his unhappy past with his father.
Yes, she should have followed Tony's orders without a word, but we know that she has lots of problem on following NCIS orders *grin*
Yes, Gibbs forced Tony to accept this crazy NCIS operation and should have been a little more supportive with his SFA, but I think Gibbs will never completely understand Tony and his father. Even if his realtionship with his father has never been idyllic, Jackson has always protect him (as we saw in Heartland's flashbacks) and he has never sent him away, as Sr. did with little Tony. And his question to Sr. in hotel room is the clear sign this his not-understanding.
Yes, they should have to focused a little more on the case, but this was Tony&Sr. episode, so the case was not so relevant, as it always happens when they have great guest star.
But this is the typical recent NCIS and I'm getting used on it (sigh), so I decided to not pay attention to that or I'll not enjoy any episode anymore :(

I focused my attention just on Tony's POV, since this was his episode, and even though I'd have liked to see him show all his skills as a competent (another typical recent NCIS *sigh*), I liked him.
Tony has the typical behavior of a neglected child (it doesn't matter how old he is).
He doesn't like his father's behavior. He doesn't trust or believe him. He doesn't want him at his place, because he doesn't know how to live/behave with him...
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rosecake
rosecake
56. RE: Discuss episode 8.07 Broken Arrow here!
Nov 10 2010, 8:23 AM EST | Post edited: Nov 10 2010, 9:49 AM EST
...cont
But at the same time Tony's worried about him, he still wants his love and attention, because, even if Gibbs 's Tony's father figure and his real 'dad' (and probably he'll always be), willi-nilly Sr. is his real father, his real family, the man that Tons has lokked for for his entire life and now that he's an adult man with his own life nad his independence, he feels that he can talk with him freely. Tony wants to understand why his father didnt' want to be a real dad for him after his mother's death, why he sent him away and never took care of him.
I think that Tony'll never completely forgive his father (I wouldn't do), but to me he wants to give him a chance. Tony wants to move on and not being stucked to the past.
Maybe I'm wrong, but I think that Sr. has finally started to understand his son and what he has lost neglecting him.The last scene showed us that even DiNozzo Sr. has a heart under his tailor's suit and maybe this is the beginning of something new and important for Tony. I just hope that his father is sincere with his son.Now, he knows that Tony's a better man than him and that he cares about him, even though he doesn't deserve his love. Sr. understood that his son has become a really good person without him and for this reason he admires him. Tony could have become like him, but instead he's a honest, loyal, caring man. A man that does not hold grudge.They'll never be the normal father&son, but if they'll have a civil-honest relationship, Tony will be able to really move on with his life and build his own path (MW's words) without carving attention and love by (or from?) anyone.
In the end, if I focus on Tony's POV and on MW's performance, I like this episode. I know that this is not "F&B", but after "Cracked" it's more than what I expected. Better something than nothing *sigh*
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hicksi
hicksi
57. RE: Discuss episode 8.07 Broken Arrow here!
Nov 10 2010, 8:43 AM EST | Post edited: Nov 10 2010, 8:44 AM EST
"We're Tivanatics, we don't communicate well."

It's the best-structured episode this year.
Good characterisation.
Fabulous use of non-spoken thought and meaning.
Effective use of violence (did you notice that there was only a small violent scene:- most of the episode was about feelings).
Loved that the 'girls' fawn over DiNozzo Snr.
First time this year that there's been some meat in Tony's character (I would really love it if they brought back the Tony of the time when Jenny was in charge after Gibbs went AWOL)
Nice that the clown-character was the finance guy in this episode.
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rosecake
rosecake
58. RE: Discuss episode 8.07 Broken Arrow here!
Nov 10 2010, 9:53 AM EST | Post edited: Nov 10 2010, 9:53 AM EST
Just few other things...
- MW is Oscar material. His second name is 'Talent' and NCIS is very like to have him!!! :)))
- I thought that they would have explanined us Sr.'s "situation" (8.01 "Spider and the Fly").
- Nobody has a mother in NCIS?! Just fathers?! LOL
1  out of 1 found this valuable. Do you?    
tara_persad
tara_persad
59. RE: Discuss episode 8.07 Broken Arrow here!
Nov 10 2010, 10:03 AM EST | Post edited: Nov 10 2010, 10:03 AM EST
"Whooohooo, I loved this episode and I love this show, we are so lucky that we have the excellent cast, writers & crew that we do. This was great, loved every minute of it! "
I agree with you gottahave; this was indeed a good episode, I liked everything about it.
3  out of 3 found this valuable. Do you?    
prophetess01
prophetess01
60. RE: Discuss episode 8.07 Broken Arrow here!
Nov 10 2010, 10:04 AM EST | Post edited: Nov 10 2010, 10:04 AM EST
I really enjoyed watching this episode. Robert Wagner is awesome. It's human nature for Tony to act the way he does. He is so very afraid of being embarrassed. Besides the embarrassment issue he doesn't want his father to be injured in any way. Tony, Sr., seems to find it all very amusing. When the woman at the party asked Tony, Sr., his relationship with Ziva he quoted Tony, Jr. verbatim...we have no relationship...it's strictly business. Right. The Ziva scene with the karate chops was great. The only thing I saw that didn't look up to snuff was when the bad guy ripped the camera brooch off of Ziva's dress. He was lucky his arm was still attached at the shoulder. It was just out of character for her to stand there and let him do that. I look forward for the next Robert Wagner episode whether in this season or season 9. 3  out of 3 found this valuable. Do you?    
#1hotchfan
#1hotchfan
61. RE: Discuss episode 8.07 Broken Arrow here!
Nov 10 2010, 10:05 AM EST | Post edited: Nov 10 2010, 10:05 AM EST
"I thought the PCA voting ended? I got an email from them saying that it ended :("
The voting to narrow the fields down has ended. The 'official 'voting for the #1 person/show/movie, etc. in each category is now open.
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