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Discussion: Gibbs and ZivaReported This is a featured thread

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marion612
marion612
20. RE: Gibbs and Ziva
Sep 11 2010, 11:38 AM EDT | Post edited: Sep 11 2010, 11:38 AM EDT
"interesting about the language use, marion. The use of "vous" ties in with what I've feared with Gibbs/McGee but it does surprise me with Gibbs & Ziva. Was it just that one episode or does Gibbs normally use the more familiar "tu" with Ziva? "
He used it only once with Ziva in Good cop, bad cop, when he was speaking to her fomer mossad partner and she came in, after he went back to "vous".
It surprised me that Kate was called "tu" and said "tu" to Gibbs right away though.
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Willow22
21. RE: Gibbs and Ziva
Sep 11 2010, 1:54 PM EDT | Post edited: Sep 11 2010, 1:54 PM EDT
I don't know if you depend on the dubbing to extrapolate relationship info. Sometimes they don't get it exactly right, and, afaik, it's not done by any actual NCIS people. Do you find this valuable?    
weatherlywatcher49
weatherlywatcher49
22. RE: Gibbs and Ziva
Sep 11 2010, 7:43 PM EDT | Post edited: Sep 11 2010, 7:43 PM EDT
"I totally agree with you Margy. It was sort of poetic how you described Gibbs and Ziva. Ziva do indeed considers Gibbs as her father. And that hug she gave him in season 6, it said something about their father daughter relationship; it was like she was separated from her father for a long time or something happened to him (Gibbs) and she was more than happy to see him again. We would never see something like that between Eli and Ziva :( I also agree with Gottahave, Gibbs considered Ziva part of his family, that's why he gave Ziva another chance, that's why he let Ziva tell her side of the story. Yes, what Ziva did was wrong, lying to Gibbs and having him choose between her and Tony; but Ziva Gibbs he sort of thought like her father, and Ziva was his daughter - giving her another chance instead of just forgetting about her. IMO, Gibbs and Ziva's sort of father daughter relationship is unique and strong if they could go through all of what they went through, forgive each other and look the other way.

And the part about Gibbs missing her ceremony, I just really hope there is something - a talk or anything! between Gibbs and Ziva about why he missed it.
Lol, I still can't believe Ziva expected Gibbs to choose between her and Tony. Did she really think there was a chance that Gibbs would choose her instead of Tony of all people? Like what was she thinking?! I am always shocked whenever I think about how Ziva gave Gibbs that choice......."
As Abby said when she was getting onto Ziva for not trusting Tony in "Reunion", "You weren't thinking! That's right, you weren't thinking!"
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weatherlywatcher49
weatherlywatcher49
23. RE: Gibbs and Ziva
Sep 11 2010, 8:06 PM EDT | Post edited: Sep 11 2010, 8:06 PM EDT
"I've always been a little perplexed by the father daughter bit. Ziva said that she considered Gibbs as a father but I've not really seen anything from him that suggests he does regard her in that way."
This is why I love reading and writing in this forum - people's perspectives about the same thing are so different, yet very enlightening. I can watch the same scene or episode over and over and not see something until someone else puts it out there - as is the case with Margy when she said that Gibbs was worried about Ziva being on the team because of Tony and Tim. I had always assumed it was because Gibbs likes to pick his own team and is never happy when anyone forces him to take on a new person even for a little bit - but now I see where it could be the Tony/Tim thing as well. Thanks for that, Margy.

As for Ziva and Israel - Ziva was upset and her father used that to try to turn her against NCIS. He does not like the idea that she and Tony are close (evidenced in season 4 and here) and he wants her to be loyal to him and only him. The expression he had on his face when Gibbs told Ziva good-bye clearly showed that he was somehow behind Ziva's decision to push Gibbs into choosing between her and Tony.

I agree with you, FFFrog - I feel the same way about Ziva and Gibbs. IMO, I feel that the writers can't seem to make up their minds about this relationship. Gibbs definitely did not want Ziva on the team (for whatever reasons) at first and was very hard on her. The one thing this relationship had going at first was the fact that she killed Ari to save him - and this was destroyed last season. I couldn't believe it when I first heard them talking about this and I thought it was all a lie to get Gibbs to give up on Ziva. When Ziva admitted it - that blew me away.
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tara_persad
tara_persad
24. RE: Gibbs and Ziva
Sep 12 2010, 7:14 PM EDT | Post edited: Sep 12 2010, 7:14 PM EDT
"I agree with you, FFFrog - I feel the same way about Ziva and Gibbs. IMO, I feel that the writers can't seem to make up their minds about this relationship. Gibbs definitely did not want Ziva on the team (for whatever reasons) at first and was very hard on her. The one thing this relationship had going at first was the fact that she killed Ari to save him - and this was destroyed last season. I couldn't believe it when I first heard them talking about this and I thought it was all a lie to get Gibbs to give up on Ziva. When Ziva admitted it - that blew me away. "
Ziva and Gibbs have their own unique and "close" relationship; just as Gibbs have with Tony, Tim and Abby. They all look up to him, admire him and have utmost respect for him. Also to the team, Gibbs is some sort of hero to them. That being said, I don't think that Gibbs really considers Ziva as a daughter, though they do have a sort of close relationship, but it's one based on trust, respect and all the things they have been through. Also I think Ziva was manipulating Gibbs when she said that he is the closest thing she have to a father. She was confused, upset and hurt; and trying to hide her emotions and feelings while trying to show them a little.

Eli looked most happy when Gibbs decided to leave Ziva behind, there was this sly and creepy smile on his face :(

Thats true, their relationship was only at first founded on the fact that Ziva saved Gibbs life. I couldn't believe it too, when this episode premiered the sub titles weren't on CBS so I was having a bit of a bit of a hard time really hearing everything, so when I heard what Vance told Gibbs the truth about Ziva killing Ari, I refused to believe it I thought Vance was lying. Then when Ziva admitted it I was shocked and blown away too, especially cause that complicated everything and changed everything and the fact that Gibbs and Ziva relationship wasn't built on trust.
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bellswebster
bellswebster
25. RE: Gibbs and Ziva
Sep 12 2010, 8:04 PM EDT | Post edited: Sep 12 2010, 8:04 PM EDT
I think they have seen and learnt enough about each now to trust one another. Do you find this valuable?    
tiva15
tiva15
26. RE: Gibbs and Ziva
Sep 13 2010, 6:51 AM EDT | Post edited: Sep 13 2010, 6:51 AM EDT
I would agree with ALL of you on father- daughter relationship between Gibbs and Ziva. But I think it is something more in it. She sees in hem more like her soul keeper- guardian, who will never leave her in the arms of the TROUBLE, no matter how bid it, is. She cannot see herself without him. Just look at the dialog in Hiatus. I almost cried myself with her. She cannot accept that Gibbs do not remember her. And as a marine, Gibbs will always be OWE her (as she will collect later).
About Citizenship ceremony- don’t know what he will tell her, but I would think she will forgive him, as she knows that it had to be a something BIG to miss ceremony.
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bellswebster
bellswebster
27. RE: Gibbs and Ziva
Sep 13 2010, 12:59 PM EDT | Post edited: Sep 13 2010, 12:59 PM EDT
I think everyone was upset at the prospect that Gibbs couldn't remember anyone or anything. I do believe she will forgive him as to why he didn't turn up as most people would. Do you find this valuable?    
gottahavemyncis
gottahavemyncis
28. RE: Gibbs and Ziva
Sep 13 2010, 1:01 PM EDT | Post edited: Sep 13 2010, 1:01 PM EDT
"I think everyone was upset at the prospect that Gibbs couldn't remember anyone or anything. I do believe she will forgive him as to why he didn't turn up as most people would."
Yes, Ziva will forgive him, Bells, not sure some of our posters will, LOL!
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tara_persad
tara_persad
29. RE: Gibbs and Ziva
Sep 13 2010, 1:36 PM EDT | Post edited: Sep 13 2010, 1:36 PM EDT
"Yes, Ziva will forgive him, Bells, not sure some of our posters will, LOL! "
I was mad when I see that Gibbs didn't attend her ceremony but I have forgiven him already :D What I will be mad at for a while is if the writers don't find the time to fit in a few lousy minutes for Gibbs and Ziva to have just a few minutes talk about why he missed the ceremony. Yes we the viewers know why, but Ziva doesn't, I think the writers owe us that much, but that's just my opinion.
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weatherlywatcher49
weatherlywatcher49
30. RE: Gibbs and Ziva
Sep 14 2010, 8:24 AM EDT | Post edited: Sep 14 2010, 8:24 AM EDT
"I was mad when I see that Gibbs didn't attend her ceremony but I have forgiven him already :D What I will be mad at for a while is if the writers don't find the time to fit in a few lousy minutes for Gibbs and Ziva to have just a few minutes talk about why he missed the ceremony. Yes we the viewers know why, but Ziva doesn't, I think the writers owe us that much, but that's just my opinion."
I don't know that I have forgiven him - or maybe it's the writers, lol. I do not understand how in one episode Gibbs is giving Ziva "tough love," then kissing her and whispering something in her ear that makes her smile then in another episode, he decides to not go to her citizenship ceremony because M. Allison Hart shows up with a briefcase in hand.

I understand that Gibbs is trying to get all of this crap behind him (shooting Pedro, etc) but couldn't it have waited for another hour or two? After all, this has been going on for years now, right? Not the drug cartel being after him, but him having killed Hernandez, which is why Hart was there.

I could see him not attending the ceremony if he had gotten a call from someone saying that his father was in danger or whatever. But just to sit and chat with Hart about ethics and the case? No. Maybe I'm missing something but I am confused as to why Gibbs did what he did and I, like Ziva, would like to know the reason why. Unfortunately, it seems the writers are going to glaze over this - at least for a while.
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tara_persad
tara_persad
31. RE: Gibbs and Ziva
Sep 14 2010, 9:01 AM EDT | Post edited: Sep 14 2010, 9:01 AM EDT
"I don't know that I have forgiven him - or maybe it's the writers, lol. I do not understand how in one episode Gibbs is giving Ziva "tough love," then kissing her and whispering something in her ear that makes her smile then in another episode, he decides to not go to her citizenship ceremony because M. Allison Hart shows up with a briefcase in hand.

I understand that Gibbs is trying to get all of this crap behind him but couldn't it have waited for another hour or two? After all, this has been going on for years now, right? Not the drug cartel being after him, but him having killed Hernandez, which is why Hart was there.

I could see him not attending the ceremony if he had gotten a call from someone saying that his father was in danger or whatever. But just to sit and chat with Hart about ethics and the case? No. Maybe I'm missing something but I am confused as to why Gibbs did what he did and I, like Ziva, would like to know the reason why. Unfortunately, it seems the writers are going to glaze over this - at least for a while."
I know right?! Finally! someone who have like the same views like me about Gibbs missing it. And Hart asked Gibbs why he was all dressed, if he had anywhere to go. Was it so hard for Gibbs to say well yes, I have Agent David's citizenship ceremony to attend. Or just simply tell Hart to pass back and check him later. I was disappointed that Gibbs didn't for the same reasons you said ww 49; you would think that after Gibbs kissing her, whispering something meaningful to her that he will attend. Hart should have showed up after the ceremony ended or the ceremony should have taken place this season 8, when this Gibbs drug cartel arc died down, don't you think? That way, they would have been able to give us a better scene with that ceremony and even have some after something, with the team talking to Ziva and congratulating her and maybe a congrats hug from Abby.
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FFFrog
32. RE: Gibbs and Ziva
Sep 14 2010, 9:54 AM EDT | Post edited: Sep 14 2010, 9:54 AM EDT
Gibbs really had a hell of a lot t deal with and its not as if he is actually her father. its just a ceremony after all and he never turns up for any of his own so maybe he felt getting his own problems under control was more important. Do you find this valuable?    
weatherlywatcher49
weatherlywatcher49
33. RE: Gibbs and Ziva
Sep 14 2010, 10:12 AM EDT | Post edited: Sep 14 2010, 10:12 AM EDT
"I know right?! Finally! someone who have like the same views like me about Gibbs missing it. And Hart asked Gibbs why he was all dressed, if he had anywhere to go. Was it so hard for Gibbs to say well yes, I have Agent David's citizenship ceremony to attend. Or just simply tell Hart to pass back and check him later. I was disappointed that Gibbs didn't for the same reasons you said ww 49; you would think that after Gibbs kissing her, whispering something meaningful to her that he will attend. Hart should have showed up after the ceremony ended or the ceremony should have taken place this season 8, when this Gibbs drug cartel arc died down, don't you think? That way, they would have been able to give us a better scene with that ceremony and even have some after something, with the team talking to Ziva and congratulating her and maybe a congrats hug from Abby."
Yeah, I would have liked it if the whole team had been there for Ziva's citizenship ceremony. They had made such a big deal of it all season long - and it is a big deal - it should be treated as one. I'm not talking about making a whole hour out of it, but as you said - maybe a few minutes of the gang hanging out and congratulating Ziva after the ceremony - like they hung out together in the season 4 finale - "Angel of Death." Just a few moments of happy times with the gang celebrating before being called back to work or whatever would have been nice.

As I said, I can understand Tony not being there but I will never understand why Gibbs was not there - unless he explains, which I do not see happening at least for a time.
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weatherlywatcher49
weatherlywatcher49
34. RE: Gibbs and Ziva
Sep 14 2010, 10:22 AM EDT | Post edited: Sep 14 2010, 10:22 AM EDT
"Gibbs really had a hell of a lot t deal with and its not as if he is actually her father. its just a ceremony after all and he never turns up for any of his own so maybe he felt getting his own problems under control was more important."
I understand that Gibbs had a lot to deal with at the time, but he could have spared an hour or so. And you are right - he is not her father but he protected her like one (or at least a good friend or mentor) when he told Ben Gidon "Go! Get out of here! Run! You tell Eli David to stay away - she is off limits!" In her mind, she at least sees him as a protector of sorts and one that she would expect to be at her ceremony.

Gibbs never turns up to his own because he does not want to be in the spotlight or does not want to be rewarded for his work. He feels he is just doing his job. I do not think he feels the same way when it comes to his team. He may not praise them a lot but he does tell them when they do a good job or when he is proud of them. And he also rewards them - he asked that Kate receive the Presidential Medal of Honor when she died. I don't see him looking at a ceremony for one of his agents the same way as he does one that honors him. Gibbs supports his team no matter what - that is why I was so shocked and still am.
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tara_persad
tara_persad
35. RE: Gibbs and Ziva
Sep 14 2010, 10:58 AM EDT | Post edited: Sep 14 2010, 10:58 AM EDT
Yes, Tony's absence is very understandable, I have accepted that he missed it cause he had no choice, "he was following orders" given by the Director. Yes, I know Gibbs have alot on his plate; he is confused, troubled and haunted by his past. But it's like ww 49 said, all we want is for Gibbs to have a few minutes talk with Ziva that's it, nothing more. I don't even expect them to make a whole hour about it; but it's like ww said, all season they had scenes about this citizenship, they made a big deal out of it, they needed to give us a little more. Thats a good example too ww 49, Angel of Death end scene. Oh and Child's Play the Thanksgiving end scene, that was a really nice "happy times" scene of the team. Thats what I wanted, a a few minutes where the team hangs around and congratulates Ziva, then they can end it and forget about it.

Gibbs hates the center of attention, he get hates getting rewarded and getting praise. But he never fails to praise his team, give them the center of attention and a chance at something. Even if he does not verbally praise the team, he will smile at them. If it wasn't for Hart and this drug cartel business, Gibbs would have found himself at the ceremony no matter what. Ziva definitely sees Gibbs as someone who will be there for her, and will always have her back - a father figure of some sort. I doubt she is even all that upset Tony missed it, but it's Gibbs she will be upset that he missed it.

If Tony, McGee or Abby is honored for something and there is a ceremony, Gibbs will definitely be there. If one of them were to accept and award and there weren't there, I am sure Gibbs will go up on their behalf and accept it for them, even if it meant being in the spotlight.
IMO, Gibbs is the kind of guy to put aside his problems and deal with those of his team or simply going to a ceremony, he does see the teams achievements as a big deal.
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chewygal69
chewygal69
36. RE: Gibbs and Ziva
Sep 15 2010, 6:46 AM EDT | Post edited: Sep 15 2010, 6:46 AM EDT
When it comes to Ziva, he bonded with her when she killed Ari to save his life. Gibbs KNEW how difficult it was for her to kill the last of her siblings. When he grabbed her finger before going upstairs, that was it, she was his other daughter! Remember Gibbs has no family left except his dad, who is getting older. Gibbs' team are his "kids" and he truly loves them all, remember when Vance broke up the team? Remember how Gibbs reacted!? It was like someone took his "children" away from him! He freaked! He truly loves Ziva, no matter what and her dad knows this and resents her for it! Love this show! LOL! Do you find this valuable?    

FFFrog
37. RE: Gibbs and Ziva
Sep 15 2010, 8:44 AM EDT | Post edited: Sep 15 2010, 8:44 AM EDT
"When it comes to Ziva, he bonded with her when she killed Ari to save his life. Gibbs KNEW how difficult it was for her to kill the last of her siblings. When he grabbed her finger before going upstairs, that was it, she was his other daughter! Remember Gibbs has no family left except his dad, who is getting older. Gibbs' team are his "kids" and he truly loves them all, remember when Vance broke up the team? Remember how Gibbs reacted!? It was like someone took his "children" away from him! He freaked! He truly loves Ziva, no matter what and her dad knows this and resents her for it! Love this show! LOL! "
Ever since they showed that she set that up to win Gibbs confidence and then lied about it for years I've had a hell of a lot of problems valueing that save as I used to.
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weatherlywatcher49
weatherlywatcher49
38. RE: Gibbs and Ziva
Sep 15 2010, 7:31 PM EDT | Post edited: Sep 15 2010, 7:31 PM EDT
"When it comes to Ziva, he bonded with her when she killed Ari to save his life. Gibbs KNEW how difficult it was for her to kill the last of her siblings. When he grabbed her finger before going upstairs, that was it, she was his other daughter! Remember Gibbs has no family left except his dad, who is getting older. Gibbs' team are his "kids" and he truly loves them all, remember when Vance broke up the team? Remember how Gibbs reacted!? It was like someone took his "children" away from him! He freaked! He truly loves Ziva, no matter what and her dad knows this and resents her for it! Love this show! LOL! "
Yes, Gibbs and Ziva got close - some think as a father/daughter - but I do not believe it happened that quickly. Over time, yes. The finger thing was more likely a thank you because Gibbs did know it had to be hard on Ziva.

I agree with FFFrog - that save does not mean as much to me as it used to. Ziva can color it any way she wants to but the fact of the matter is - she should have told Gibbs at some point during her 3 year stay instead of waiting to confess when she had no choice.
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BiankaSK95
BiankaSK95
39. RE: Gibbs and Ziva
Dec 30 2011, 9:35 AM EST | Post edited: Dec 30 2011, 9:35 AM EST
"I agree with FFFrog - that save does not mean as much to me as it used to. Ziva can color it any way she wants to but the fact of the matter is - she should have told Gibbs at some point during her 3 year stay instead of waiting to confess when she had no choice. "
i have never thought about it like that...but it´s true.anyway.i love gibbs/ziva relationship as much as the one gibbs has with tony.They all will be always true family for me.
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