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Discussion: Kai and Ziva - Two Sides of the Same Coin?
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MargyW |
Kai and Ziva - Two Sides of the Same Coin?
Sep 6 2010, 4:34 PM EDT
My blog entry for today:http://www.ncisfanwiki.com/page/NCIS+MODERATORS%27+BLOG+115 Any feedback/discussion would be great. Do you find this valuable?
Keyword tags:
End Game
Lee Won Kai
NCIS Moderators Blog
Season 7
Ziva David
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Mona92 |
1. RE: Kai and Ziva - Two Sides of the Same Coin?
Sep 6 2010, 6:30 PM EDT
| Post edited: Sep 6 2010, 7:47 PM EDT
"My blog entry for today:Interesting topic. If you compare the lives of Ziva and Kai, I think the most important thing is that Ziva grew up in a reasonably family. That way she got what E. H. Erikson calls a basic sense of trust. Though she had to struggle hard - as we saw in season 6 - she finally found her own way to live. Kai wasn't that lucky. Brought up in an orphanage she didn't know where she belonged to neither who to trust. As you already mentioned, Margy, Leon was for her the only steady, regular, reliable thing. It's very sad and a real tragedy. Given other circumstances she would have become a complete other woman. She is a fighter and fighting hard to change only killing the baddies. I'm not sure what would have happened if Jackie hadn't shot her. Do you find this valuable? |
gottahavemyncis |
2. RE: Kai and Ziva - Two Sides of the Same Coin?
Sep 6 2010, 10:30 PM EDT
Yes, very interesting. Remember that Ducky told Gibbs that Kai had never had any kind of relationship and that seems to be the start of the dividing line between Ziva & Kai. Ziva had siblings, family & friends and even the structure of Mossad and some sense of common purpose PLUS she had the freedom to find another way of life outside of the killing game - Kai had none of those things. Yes, she still had some sense of balance, or good maybe, since she did not kill McGee or allow him to be killed and she did not kill the protective agents at the Vance home. Yeah, Mona, by the time we meet her she's just wanting to kill the baddies...and perhaps she included herself in that category - both victim & bad guy. We do see bad guys who are evil, born & bred...but you're right, both of you, Kai's actions were forced upon her..brainwashed, a harmless soul twisted into doing evil deeds. Makes me very glad Ziva, as tough as she's had it, was able to find a way out.
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HardKore71 |
3. RE: Kai and Ziva - Two Sides of the Same Coin?
Sep 6 2010, 10:52 PM EDT
This episode annoyed me, Kai isn't a Korean name...
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MargyW |
4. RE: Kai and Ziva - Two Sides of the Same Coin?
Sep 6 2010, 11:26 PM EDT
"This episode annoyed me, Kai isn't a Korean name..."She was an operative of the North Korean government. It is most likely she was given a Chinese name. I doubt she was born Lee Won Kai. Do you find this valuable? |
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HardKore71 |
5. RE: Kai and Ziva - Two Sides of the Same Coin?
Sep 7 2010, 12:26 AM EDT
"She was an operative of the North Korean government. It is most likely she was given a Chinese name. I doubt she was born Lee Won Kai."I doubt that Kai is even a Chinese name. Just like Agent Lee is supposed to be Chinese, but was played by Liza Lapira, who is Pinay or of Filipino descent. I dig Kelly Hu so I give the casting agents a pass on that one, but give her a real Korean name at least! Do you find this valuable? |
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gottahavemyncis |
6. RE: Kai and Ziva - Two Sides of the Same Coin?
Sep 7 2010, 1:10 PM EDT
I didn't like this episode much when it first aired, mostly because it was a "Vance" episode, so I sulked the entire hour. Got over that and have watched it a few times since...it's a good episode, has some good team stuff in it and a decent story..even if the names are not authentic (sorry HK!)
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gottahavemyncis |
7. RE: Kai and Ziva - Two Sides of the Same Coin?
Sep 7 2010, 1:11 PM EDT
| Post edited: Sep 7 2010, 3:58 PM EDT
"This episode annoyed me, Kai isn't a Korean name..."HK, you haven't said...was the non-authentic name the main reason the episode annoyed you or were there additional reasons? Do you find this valuable? |
AZNCISfan |
8. RE: Kai and Ziva - Two Sides of the Same Coin?
Sep 7 2010, 1:22 PM EDT
"HK, you haven't said...was the in-authentic name the main reason the episode annoyed you or were there additional reasons? "Interesting that Tony/MW wasn't more involved with this ep or character...had a Dark Angel type character. "I've done that' would sorta make sense? Do you find this valuable? |
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MargyW |
9. RE: Kai and Ziva - Two Sides of the Same Coin?
Sep 7 2010, 4:53 PM EDT
"Interesting that Tony/MW wasn't more involved with this ep or character...had a Dark Angel type character. "I've done that' would sorta make sense?"Perhaps. But I do like the way the writers scale up and down the involvement of the characters in each episode. Think about how much screen time there was for Tony in "Obsession". This was the only Vance-centric episode for season 7. Do you find this valuable? |
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HardKore71 |
10. RE: Kai and Ziva - Two Sides of the Same Coin?
Sep 8 2010, 6:17 AM EDT
"HK, you haven't said...was the non-authentic name the main reason the episode annoyed you or were there additional reasons? "Oh I liked the episode, it was just the non-authentic name that irked me. Do you find this valuable? |
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Irishelf |
11. RE: Kai and Ziva - Two Sides of the Same Coin?
Sep 9 2010, 11:01 AM EDT
"Interesting topic. If you compare the lives of Ziva and Kai, I think the most important thing is that Ziva grew up in a reasonably family. That way she got what E. H. Erikson calls a basic sense of trust. Though she had to struggle hard - as we saw in season 6 - she finally found her own way to live. Kai wasn't that lucky. Brought up in an orphanage she didn't know where she belonged to neither who to trust. As you already mentioned, Margy, Leon was for her the only steady, regular, reliable thing.Ziva grew up in a reasonable family?! I think not! She was brainwashed just as much as Kai. Eli raised her to be an assassin (he admitted as much in Last Man standing) and Ari as a mole in Hamas. She has obvious trust issues which came to a head in Aliyah. I got the distinct impression that any friends Ziva had needed to have Daddy's approval (you can tell Eli was NOT happy with Tony and ziva's friendship). And she certainly did not have much freedom-even when she was away from Daddy he found ways to control and manipulate her (having her spied on, sending Rivkin, etc.). She didn't really start questioning her upbringing until she was with Gibbs (which is why Eli has been trying so hard to make Gibbs not trust her-he realizes if he can get Ziva away from Gibbs it will be easier for him to manipulate her). And even though Ziva had a family, I get the impression that Eli doesn't love her-she is just a tool for him. Do you find this valuable? |
