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HardKore71
HardKore71
40. RE: Evolution of Timothy McGee
Mar 23 2010, 9:00 PM EDT | Post edited: Mar 23 2010, 9:00 PM EDT
"I'm not saying McGee is ready now for a field team..but one day he will be and he'll have the computer skills that Gibbs hasn't. Which will be an advantage. His confidence has already grown, you can see that. His maturity level has grown..he may on occassions have a go at Tony but its mostly out of frustration with Tony's sillyness and jibbing. Its understandable that Tim gets sick of him. I love Tony, but at times he gets on my nerves and I could headslap him myself...lol..."
He'll be ready for his own team one day, you just have to remember DiNozzo had a leg up on him because of his prior police experience and plus working for Gibbs longer IMO DiNozzo had better natural instincts so that was another bonus.
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Probie007
Probie007
41. RE: Evolution of Timothy McGee
Mar 23 2010, 9:02 PM EDT | Post edited: Mar 23 2010, 9:02 PM EDT
"I'm not saying McGee is ready now for a field team..but one day he will be and he'll have the computer skills that Gibbs hasn't. Which will be an advantage. His confidence has already grown, you can see that. His maturity level has grown..he may on occassions have a go at Tony but its mostly out of frustration with Tony's sillyness and jibbing. Its understandable that Tim gets sick of him. I love Tony, but at times he gets on my nerves and I could headslap him myself...lol..."
Totally agree Bells and its not just Tim who gets sick of Tony! :) I can handle Tony's silliness but not his needless rudeness. The difference is because the way MW and SM play the characters......some ppl dont mind Tony's rudeness and tend to overlook and consider it part of his charm, but when McGee is rude (mostly because of being Tony) everyone thinks he needs a headslap and to be off the team.......
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rosecake
rosecake
42. RE: Evolution of Timothy McGee
Mar 23 2010, 9:04 PM EDT | Post edited: Mar 23 2010, 9:04 PM EDT
"You do realize that on more than one occasion McGee has allowed Gibbs to give him credit for something that Tony found or did?"
You're right and he started already inSeason 2 on "Conspirancy Theory":

At the moment , I think Tim could be a good leader for a "computer team" , but not for a "field team" . He needs much more experience . He has not enough instinc and authority with criminals and with his colleague too , even if he's matured in the last Season.
While Tony is already ready to be a good team leader and a capable investigator (as Gibbs and Ziva said) , but after an entire life of moving from town to town (thanks to his father and then for his job) , now he likes his position as second in command , probably because he's finally found a family and his place in the world .
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emerellda
emerellda
43. RE: Evolution of Timothy McGee
Mar 24 2010, 3:45 AM EDT | Post edited: Mar 24 2010, 3:45 AM EDT
I agree that mcgee is ready for a computer team, as long as he has someone to report to, and someone above him, more directly than gibbs and vance, because i think he needs a purpose, to lead a team, at the moment, which is why, right now, i don't think he'd be a good leader of a field team, because that is more more flexible, and changes much more frequently, and to get people to really look up to him, he needs to be really good at that, knowing exactly what he has to do, tony has these qualities, but not mcgee's focus 0  out of 1 found this valuable. Do you?    
KeliCraig
KeliCraig
44. RE: Evolution of Timothy McGee
Mar 24 2010, 11:33 AM EDT | Post edited: Mar 24 2010, 11:33 AM EDT
Two things about McGee- 1)In Masquerade, McGee said "We did a preliminary work up while you were showering for the third time." His dialogue often has small comments or asides like this that I think sometimes get lost. In this instance, a subtle dig at Tony. While Tony will quickly relate a situation to a movie scenario or comment with a quote from a movie, McGee's connections and comments are more literary or historical in nature and demonstrate a much more drier wit than the 'pie-in-your-face' kind of humor Tony demonstrates.
2) I think Gibbs and Vance are grooming McGee for something big, but I don't think it would be his own team in the field. Maybe it's just me, but I see Gibbs keeping McGee by his side more often and sending Tony out to run/lead the field investigation. I think Gibbs may even be under orders to provide more mentoring for McGee in preparation for whatever Vance has in mind. That's just my own little conspiracy theory.
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think1959
think1959
45. RE: Evolution of Timothy McGee
Mar 24 2010, 12:00 PM EDT | Post edited: Mar 24 2010, 12:00 PM EDT
Just putting in my two cents worth.
Tim has come a long way as a agent on the show. BUT he still has a bit of a way to go to be a leadership position the way Gibbs is. Tim is still a little on the soft side he has yet to run into the case that puts the fine edge on him. Where the rest of the team has.
Most everyone I know in law enforcement has a withdrawn or hard edge to them until you get close to them. Their way of protecting them selfs from what they face. Tim lacks that.
JMO
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Scorpio-lady
Scorpio-lady
46. RE: Evolution of Timothy McGee
Mar 24 2010, 12:55 PM EDT | Post edited: Mar 24 2010, 12:55 PM EDT
"Personally I think McGee has more leadership skills than Tony. He has had more experience. Remember he is a scout leader. Until you've tried to impose order and leadership on a pack of hyper active kids, you have no idea what leadership actually involves. LOL."
LOL....you're right about this, Margy. We've had a few episodes where we were able to see McGee's leadership skills, and also how he can relate to kids....all thanks to having been a good Boy Scout leader. I don't imagine that in transferring from kids to adults in his leadership role, it would be too much for McGee to handle *smiling*.
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Scorpio-lady
Scorpio-lady
47. RE: Evolution of Timothy McGee
Mar 24 2010, 1:07 PM EDT | Post edited: Mar 24 2010, 1:07 PM EDT
"I cant follow a man who keeps admiring and fretting over his looks all the time *wink*
I lost a little respect for Tony as leader when he used to take credit for other's work (McGee a no of times though of late thats reduced) and when he was needlessly rude while acting team boss (and otherwise). To be a good leader, you need to earn the respect of your team which in Tony's case still has some way to go. Ziva, McGee, Abby certainly do not respect him that much yet - JMHO.
"
Hey there Probie! I agree with you. So what if McGee has exceptionally dry skin and applies lotion to his body? At least he doesn't spend hours "preening" in front of a mirror every chance he gets *lol*. Tony has had a good chance to "prove himself" as the "team leader", and it seemed as clear to me (as it did to you, Probie) that he dropped the ball. I'm not saying that Tony is too "stupid" to lead the team....just that too large a part of his basic personality is still that of rather immature kid. There's one thing that happened this year that really angered me. The writers finally had Tony headed toward becoming an "adult"....and just as most of us were all cheering, they took it all away and Tony once again became our little boy playing the cut- up. Hardkore, I'm sure you are following my thinking here, too *smiling*.
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Scorpio-lady
Scorpio-lady
48. RE: Evolution of Timothy McGee
Mar 24 2010, 1:16 PM EDT | Post edited: Mar 24 2010, 1:16 PM EDT
"What's wrong with flexing in front of the mirror, or making sure you got your hair exactly in place Probie? Its perfectly normal I think, and I also think McGee envies DiNozzo's confidence to some degree."
Ah Hardkore. Why on earth would McGee envy Tony's "confidence"? I see it that McGee has confidence because he DOESN'T need to fluff his feathers every time he passes a window or mirror *lol*. Real men, or should I say "secure" men, don't need to do this to bolster their self-confidence *grinning*.
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Scorpio-lady
Scorpio-lady
49. RE: Evolution of Timothy McGee
Mar 24 2010, 1:25 PM EDT | Post edited: Mar 24 2010, 1:25 PM EDT
"I really can't picture McGee as the leader of a team out in the field. A computer team, sure. Maybe even a leader in an administrative position. But I just think McGee lacks the authority and instinct needed to lead a team in the field. Something I've noticed lately (particularly in the episode Jurisdiction, because that's fresh in my mind) is that he doesn't always grasp the thought process and motives of the criminals, something that's needed for a good leader in the field. That's not really something you can learn.

Whereas Tony is very much like Gibbs - the parallels have often been drawn even in the show itself - and could already have his own team, if he wanted. I think Tony likes where he's at for the moment, though."
I must respectfully disagree with you about what is needed to be a good leader in the field. From everything I know, it's exactly what agents DO learn in the field that can and should be learned before they can fully understand the "thought processes" and "motives" of criminals. Part of being a "probie" is what this is about....they learn as they go. And, the "learning" never ends because every experience in the field is different from the last one.

You're right about Tony, though...he does like it where he's at....because he's comfortable where he's at. It's a lot easier to be a clown than to have the full responsibility of being a team leader, and he knows it *grinning*.
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Scorpio-lady
Scorpio-lady
50. RE: Evolution of Timothy McGee
Mar 24 2010, 1:37 PM EDT | Post edited: Mar 24 2010, 1:37 PM EDT
"Two things about McGee- 1)In Masquerade, McGee said "We did a preliminary work up while you were showering for the third time." His dialogue often has small comments or asides like this that I think sometimes get lost. In this instance, a subtle dig at Tony. While Tony will quickly relate a situation to a movie scenario or comment with a quote from a movie, McGee's connections and comments are more literary or historical in nature and demonstrate a much more drier wit than the 'pie-in-your-face' kind of humor Tony demonstrates.
2) I think Gibbs and Vance are grooming McGee for something big, but I don't think it would be his own team in the field. Maybe it's just me, but I see Gibbs keeping McGee by his side more often and sending Tony out to run/lead the field investigation. I think Gibbs may even be under orders to provide more mentoring for McGee in preparation for whatever Vance has in mind. That's just my own little conspiracy theory."
I think that you might be right, Keli, about the plans that Gibbs and Vance might one day have for McGee. I keep thinking that if either Gibbs or Vance had to move up either Tony or McGee into the team leadership role...even temporarily...they are going to pick McGee.
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Scorpio-lady
Scorpio-lady
51. RE: Evolution of Timothy McGee
Mar 24 2010, 1:47 PM EDT | Post edited: Mar 24 2010, 1:47 PM EDT
"Just putting in my two cents worth.
Tim has come a long way as a agent on the show. BUT he still has a bit of a way to go to be a leadership position the way Gibbs is. Tim is still a little on the soft side he has yet to run into the case that puts the fine edge on him. Where the rest of the team has.
Most everyone I know in law enforcement has a withdrawn or hard edge to them until you get close to them. Their way of protecting them selfs from what they face. Tim lacks that.
JMO "
Personally, I don't think that it's fair to either Tony or McGee to compare them to Gibbs, or to expect for either of them to "become" Gibbs. That would be totally impossible! Each of them should develop their own "style" of leadership, just as Gibbs did under the guidance of Mike Franks, but not "exactly" as a clone of Franks. Just saying *smiling*.
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think1959
think1959
52. RE: Evolution of Timothy McGee
Mar 24 2010, 2:18 PM EDT | Post edited: Mar 24 2010, 2:18 PM EDT
"Personally, I don't think that it's fair to either Tony or McGee to compare them to Gibbs, or to expect for either of them to "become" Gibbs. That would be totally impossible! Each of them should develop their own "style" of leadership, just as Gibbs did under the guidance of Mike Franks, but not "exactly" as a clone of Franks. Just saying *smiling*."
Sorry SL that is not what I was trying to say. I just do not think he is ready to step that far ahead of where he is now. ( To be in Gibbs position of authority) He still needs to have that protective shell that a lot of law enforcement have to protect themselves from the day to day of their job.
I do not want his to be a copy of Gibbs, just a bit more like he was with the lady con in "Caged"
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turtle_island
turtle_island
53. RE: Evolution of Timothy McGee
Mar 24 2010, 2:30 PM EDT | Post edited: Mar 24 2010, 2:43 PM EDT
"Ah Hardkore. Why on earth would McGee envy Tony's "confidence"? I see it that McGee has confidence because he DOESN'T need to fluff his feathers every time he passes a window or mirror *lol*. Real men, or should I say "secure" men, don't need to do this to bolster their self-confidence *grinning*. "
I'm not sure why this has turned into something about who cares about their looks more, but why does it matter? BOTH of them care about it and so what? McGee gets manicures and rubs on women's lotion. He drives a status car and buys very expensive jackets. He's also taken to dressing nicer and working out to slim down. I just re-watched an episode where he tries growing a beard to look more manly. Those actions are him caring about his looks and being self conscious about it, sorry to tell you. And I don't think it's a knock against McGee or Tony to do so.

If you're trying to knock down Tony about caring about his looks in order to pump up McGee, which seems a strange thing to me, I think you need to re-watch McGee some more if you think he isn't self-conscience about it. I just don't think it has any bearing on either of their leadership abilities.
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turtle_island
turtle_island
54. RE: Evolution of Timothy McGee
Mar 24 2010, 2:34 PM EDT | Post edited: Mar 24 2010, 2:34 PM EDT
"I think that you might be right, Keli, about the plans that Gibbs and Vance might one day have for McGee. I keep thinking that if either Gibbs or Vance had to move up either Tony or McGee into the team leadership role...even temporarily...they are going to pick McGee. "
I find that completely unbelievable and unlikely.

Gibbs has a) already turned the team over to Tony before, b) said in the past that Tony deserves his own team, c) said their investigative styles are similar, and d) said that Tony is the best young agent he's ever worked with - and said it *this* season.

But he's going to promote someone else ahead of him? Vance, maybe, just because he doesn't like the styles of agents like Gibbs and Tony. But Gibbs? No way. It would completely go against his character.
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KeliCraig
KeliCraig
55. RE: Evolution of Timothy McGee
Mar 24 2010, 3:26 PM EDT | Post edited: Mar 24 2010, 3:26 PM EDT
"I think that you might be right, Keli, about the plans that Gibbs and Vance might one day have for McGee. I keep thinking that if either Gibbs or Vance had to move up either Tony or McGee into the team leadership role...even temporarily...they are going to pick McGee. "
SL-I think you missed my point. I don't think McGee is being groomed for leadership role. I stand by what others have alluded to, that McGee doesn't have the 'street cred' to lead in the field. Yes, he could eventually do that. However, my point is that McGee is destined for something else. I think it was in 'Aliyah' Vance and Gibbs had a conversation that had Vance saying NCIS agents ". . .should look more like McGee than DiNozzo." And Gibbs concluded with "more like you than me." Vance is the one that wants McGee to be given the opportunity to move ahead. I think it is under Vance's direction that Gibbs is providing more mentoring to McGee but I don't think it's for a field position. McGee's educational background (Computer Forensics and the one from Johns Hopkins) make him more valuable sitting at a desk than going undercover. I agree he has come a long way and has certainly shown his chops in the field (Caged, T or C, etc) but I still think his destiny lies along another path. Vance prefers agents to be more like McGee. Gibbs certainly values McGee's abilities but (imho) prefers agent to be more like Tony.
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KeliCraig
KeliCraig
56. RE: Evolution of Timothy McGee
Mar 24 2010, 3:37 PM EDT | Post edited: Mar 24 2010, 3:37 PM EDT
"I find that completely unbelievable and unlikely.

Gibbs has a) already turned the team over to Tony before, b) said in the past that Tony deserves his own team, c) said their investigative styles are similar, and d) said that Tony is the best young agent he's ever worked with - and said it *this* season.

But he's going to promote someone else ahead of him? Vance, maybe, just because he doesn't like the styles of agents like Gibbs and Tony. But Gibbs? No way. It would completely go against his character."
Thank you, turtle island. You said what I was getting at. McGee is Vance's choice.
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Scorpio-lady
Scorpio-lady
57. RE: Evolution of Timothy McGee
Mar 24 2010, 3:43 PM EDT | Post edited: Mar 24 2010, 3:43 PM EDT
"Sorry SL that is not what I was trying to say. I just do not think he is ready to step that far ahead of where he is now. ( To be in Gibbs position of authority) He still needs to have that protective shell that a lot of law enforcement have to protect themselves from the day to day of their job.
I do not want his to be a copy of Gibbs, just a bit more like he was with the lady con in "Caged" "
Oh...ok...I see what you were trying to say now *smiling*. In a way I can agree with what you say about McGee needing that "protective shell" around himself re. the horrible things they come across all the time. But, so far, it can also be said that McGee has been out there long enough now to see most of it himself, and so in order to live with it, he must have already developed his own "coping" skills. Maybe the problem is that we just haven't see as much of McGee's private life as we have of Gibbs and Tony's private lives....to know or understand how he copes with the horrors of the job. Gibbs builds boats in his basement to reduce his stress and unwind. If we are to believe what Tony does, he either watches movies every night, or chases women to reduce stress and unwind. We do know that McGee was writing novels at one time. Did he stop writing? Not much has been said about that in the past year or so. But, at one time, that was how he coped with his stress at the end of the day. Sooner or later, they all have to be able to do this....to detach themselves from the horrors they see every day in the work they do....without becoming alcoholics *lol*.
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Scorpio-lady
Scorpio-lady
58. RE: Evolution of Timothy McGee
Mar 24 2010, 3:53 PM EDT | Post edited: Mar 24 2010, 3:53 PM EDT
"I'm not sure why this has turned into something about who cares about their looks more, but why does it matter? BOTH of them care about it and so what? McGee gets manicures and rubs on women's lotion. He drives a status car and buys very expensive jackets. He's also taken to dressing nicer and working out to slim down. I just re-watched an episode where he tries growing a beard to look more manly. Those actions are him caring about his looks and being self conscious about it, sorry to tell you. And I don't think it's a knock against McGee or Tony to do so.

If you're trying to knock down Tony about caring about his looks in order to pump up McGee, which seems a strange thing to me, I think you need to re-watch McGee some more if you think he isn't self-conscience about it. I just don't think it has any bearing on either of their leadership abilities."
Um....Hardkore and a couple of us were just having some fun about their personal grooming. Sorry if you misunderstood our intentions. No one have been trying to "knock down" Tony. Although we've sometimes wandered around a bit, for the most part we are still focused on "The evolution of Timothy McGee".....as he is the subject of this thread.....so all is well with the world. Right?
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Scorpio-lady
Scorpio-lady
59. RE: Evolution of Timothy McGee
Mar 24 2010, 4:03 PM EDT | Post edited: Mar 24 2010, 4:03 PM EDT
"SL-I think you missed my point. I don't think McGee is being groomed for leadership role. I stand by what others have alluded to, that McGee doesn't have the 'street cred' to lead in the field. Yes, he could eventually do that. However, my point is that McGee is destined for something else. I think it was in 'Aliyah' Vance and Gibbs had a conversation that had Vance saying NCIS agents ". . .should look more like McGee than DiNozzo." And Gibbs concluded with "more like you than me." Vance is the one that wants McGee to be given the opportunity to move ahead. I think it is under Vance's direction that Gibbs is providing more mentoring to McGee but I don't think it's for a field position. McGee's educational background (Computer Forensics and the one from Johns Hopkins) make him more valuable sitting at a desk than going undercover. I agree he has come a long way and has certainly shown his chops in the field (Caged, T or C, etc) but I still think his destiny lies along another path. Vance prefers agents to be more like McGee. Gibbs certainly values McGee's abilities but (imho) prefers agent to be more like Tony. "
Hi again, Keli. Yes, maybe I did miss your point. But, I didn't say that I felt that McGee is being "groomed" for a leadership role. I only think that at the current time *NCIS time* that McGee would be more attractive to Vance than Tony would be, to take charge....and I believe that I have said "temporarily" somewhere today, too. Like you....in the long run, I also believe that McGee's destiny is still an unknown....but more likely to be more connected to cyber-forensics than anything else.
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