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Discussion: Why I didn't like Jenny ShepardReported This is a featured thread

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HardKore71
HardKore71
60. RE: Why I didn't like Jenny Shepard
Dec 15 2009, 5:11 PM EST | Post edited: Dec 15 2009, 5:11 PM EST
"I totally agree with you on this point, about only killing off the female characters, this is one thing that really irks me about shows, and unfortunatly I think it has to do with theartic elements, that girls will raise far more emotions than boys, and the manner of there death, such as kate's, Jenny was such a strong woman, and I loved how they put her in such a position of power, in possibly the two most male dominated occupations, the miltary and high management positions, and it is sad, even if you didn't like the character, to see that go, and she and Ziva helped to balence out the male dominated team"
Sasha Alexander wanted to leave so I can understand the sitiation there, but Lauren Holly has stated the writers essentially wrote her off the show which personally I thought was a mistake. I agree with everyone that Jen went over the line in her pursuit of the Frog, but when Gibbs asked her "How far are you willing to go with this, Jen?" and she replied "As far as you were going to go with getting Ari."; Gibbs had no response because he knew he was willing to cross the line himself to avenge Kate's murder. Someone posted an excellent observation earlier on this thread which is: Franks taught Gibbs, Gibbs taught Jen. sometimes you reap what you sow.
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dani_g
dani_g
61. RE: Why I didn't like Jenny Shepard
Dec 15 2009, 9:07 PM EST | Post edited: Dec 15 2009, 9:07 PM EST
" when Gibbs asked her "How far are you willing to go with this, Jen?" and she replied "As far as you were going to go with getting Ari."; Gibbs had no response because he knew he was willing to cross the line himself to avenge Kate's murder. "
For me there is a big differance between the 2 cases- Jen belived her father was not guilty,but Gibbs-and I too-had a strong suspicion that's not true.Gibbs had very valid reasons to suspect that Ari is the Kate's killer -especially after the meeting they had in Twiligh, but we didn't had enough proofs that Jen's father is not gulty-exept Jen's belief in that.
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loyalfan
62. RE: Why I didn't like Jenny Shepard
Dec 16 2009, 3:10 AM EST | Post edited: Dec 16 2009, 3:10 AM EST
Saymoi,
You have described the scene which is Jenny's worst. I have to agree that her response to Tony was inappropriate. There is s scene in another episode in which she cautions Tony against becoming too "involved" and offers him a promotion with a transfer. The transfer would certainly have ended his undercover work for her. Here, her actions indicate a concern and sense of fairness for her agent. These scenes seem to be contradictory. Perhaps the writers could not get their acts together? While I am on the subject of Jenny being poorly written, there is another scene that appeared foolish and pointless. It involves Tony entering the office and finding Cynthia repairing the Director's bra. Tony remains in the office until Cynthia completes the process. The scene did nothing other than demean the Director. Again, the writing here was just not up to the standard I have come to expect from NCIS.
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ScooterGibbs
ScooterGibbs
63. RE: Why I didn't like Jenny Shepard
Dec 16 2009, 3:29 AM EST | Post edited: Dec 16 2009, 3:29 AM EST
Incredibly interesting thread. My kudos to the moderator. Valuable info for our story. Will read in its entirety, and comment later. 1  out of 1 found this valuable. Do you?    
a_giblet
a_giblet
64. RE: Why I didn't like Jenny Shepard
Dec 22 2009, 6:02 PM EST | Post edited: Dec 22 2009, 6:02 PM EST
"The topic for all her behavior is selfishness.
I agree completely with everything you pointed out. Let me add some more.
Gibbs was arrested while working undercover with Jenny Shepherd in Marseille in 1999, as she stood by and did nothing – that is why he no longer trusts her.
She also messed up at some point while undercover and Gibbs covered for her; we get to know this in Judgement Day.
"
Yeah, the Judgment Day stuff was all about a hit she was supposed to carry out overseas (not sure where it was) and that led to her eventual death in that episode too.
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a_giblet
a_giblet
65. RE: Why I didn't like Jenny Shepard
Dec 22 2009, 6:25 PM EST | Post edited: Dec 22 2009, 6:25 PM EST
Ok, I wasn't totally for Jenny Shepard, but I didn't hate her either. Afterall, no Jenny Shepard, no Ziva...right?

She didn't misuse her power by calling Condi Rice. Misusing her power was going after Le Grenouille - using the chair for personal gain. But, our definitions of abuse of power may be different *smiles.*

In "Chimera," I didn't see where she used her femininity to get what she wanted out of that guy who wouldn't read her in on the Chimera's ops. If she did, it was to protect her agents and that's where I say "she took one for the team." That guy was outright hitting on her and she wanted nothing to do with it. She did, however, want to know what was going on so her agents knew what they were up against.

All in all, I agree with your other points MargW. I especially don't like how she almost got Tony killed because of her chase of Le Grenouille. Gibbs would have NEVER forgiven her if Tony had really died in that car.
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mizgibbbs
mizgibbbs
66. RE: Why I didn't like Jenny Shepard
Dec 27 2009, 4:22 AM EST | Post edited: Dec 27 2009, 4:22 AM EST
""The topic for all her behavior is selfishness.
I agree completely with everything you pointed out. Let me add some more.
Gibbs was arrested while working undercover with Jenny Shepherd in Marseille in 1999, as she stood by and did nothing – that is why he no longer trusts her.
She also messed up at some point while undercover and Gibbs covered for her; we get to know this in Judgement Day.
""
well first of all, can you really determine so much from those flashbacks? i mean other then the obvious, it seems that when you say "she stood by and did nothing" might be a jump to a conlusion.
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ncisislove
ncisislove
67. RE: Why I didn't like Jenny Shepard
Dec 27 2009, 5:31 AM EST | Post edited: Dec 27 2009, 5:31 AM EST
" it seems that when you say "she stood by and did nothing" might be a jump to a conlusion."
In general, everything we see on the shows has some meaning about the way characters are build -like Tony said once,"the devil is in the little things"-if we see a flashback,then this flashback is important for the character. Gibbs said a few times he was arrested by the French police,and he didn't like the time when he was under arrest. If you watch the flashback,it's visible that Jen was walking aways without helping him . Why,we don't know.We don't know if she helped him later-but we do know that Gibbs looked at her (with hope,from my POV) in that flashback,and she did nothing to help him.Considering the fact that exact flashback came out in a conversation about trust in "Model Bahaviour",where Gibbs said " trust is 2 way street",and right after that we see the flashback,judging by the negative moment we saw it, I doubt if she helped him on time,or if she helped him at all.
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loyalfan
68. RE: Why I didn't like Jenny Shepard
Dec 27 2009, 6:08 AM EST | Post edited: Dec 27 2009, 6:08 AM EST
"In general, everything we see on the shows has some meaning about the way characters are build -like Tony said once,"the devil is in the little things"-if we see a flashback,then this flashback is important for the character. Gibbs said a few times he was arrested by the French police,and he didn't like the time when he was under arrest. If you watch the flashback,it's visible that Jen was walking aways without helping him . Why,we don't know.We don't know if she helped him later-but we do know that Gibbs looked at her (with hope,from my POV) in that flashback,and she did nothing to help him.Considering the fact that exact flashback came out in a conversation about trust in "Model Bahaviour",where Gibbs said " trust is 2 way street",and right after that we see the flashback,judging by the negative moment we saw it, I doubt if she helped him on time,or if she helped him at all."
Hi ncislove,
I have to agree with mizgibbs - we don't know that she did nothing to help Gibbs. Actually, looking at the brief flashbacks, it does not look like she would have stood much of a chance going up against the police as they took Gibbs away and she would have known that she would be of no use to him if she, too, had been arrested. Since he has told her more than once what a good agent she was, undercover, I think we can assume she probably helped from behind the scenes. Ducky described another incident when he was arrested and Jenny was able to talk the police into releasing him and she "comandeered" a boat from somewhere to rescue him. It does not really paint a picture of Jenny being unreliable. I think Gibbs' comments on trust/lying to each other usually reflect his hurt and resentment of the fact that she broke off their relationship, rather than criticism of her professionally.
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ncisislove
ncisislove
69. RE: Why I didn't like Jenny Shepard
Dec 27 2009, 7:08 AM EST | Post edited: Dec 27 2009, 7:08 AM EST
"Hi ncislove,
Since he has told her more than once what a good agent she was, undercover, I think we can assume she probably helped from behind the scenes. Ducky described another incident when he was arrested and Jenny was able to talk the police into releasing him and she "comandeered" a boat from somewhere to rescue him. It does not really paint a picture of Jenny being unreliable. I think Gibbs' comments on trust/lying to each other usually reflect his hurt and resentment of the fact that she broke off their relationship, rather than criticism of her professionally."
BUT ,like I said, we don't know that too-she may help him,but the chance not to help him is even.Yes,she "comandeered" a boat to resque him and Ducky-but we don't know if this is the same case we are talking about.

On "usually reflect his hurt and resentment of the fact that she broke off their relationship" i really can't agree-it's not coincidence we saw exact that flashback after exact that statement-there was nothing personal in this flashback-and it has to be there if we have to see it more like "hurt reflection on their relationship",like you said- but it only shows the professional side of their relationship.
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dani_g
dani_g
70. RE: Why I didn't like Jenny Shepard
Dec 27 2009, 7:26 AM EST | Post edited: Dec 27 2009, 7:29 AM EST
"I think Gibbs' comments on trust/lying to each other usually reflect his hurt and resentment of the fact that she broke off their relationship, rather than criticism of her professionally."
I agree with ncisislove.

Gibbs behaviour in "Model behaviour" totally shows he doesn't trust her-and the flashback was pointed out not on personal,but on professional level.And there is a reason for that mistrust-the reason,which is hidden in this exact arrest,considering the fact that exact flashback is showed in that exact moment. I can only assume,but the reason Gibbs to remember exact that arrest for me is the fact Jen didn't do anything to help him at the moment of the arrest,althought she can help-but this is,like I said,just a try for a logical assumption.
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ncisislove
ncisislove
71. RE: Why I didn't like Jenny Shepard
Dec 27 2009, 7:32 AM EST | Post edited: Dec 27 2009, 7:38 AM EST
" the flashback was pointed out not on personal,but on professional level.And there is a reason for that mistrust-the reason,which is hidden in this exact arrest,considering the fact that exact flashback is showed in that exact moment. I can only assume,but the reason Gibbs to remember exact that arrest for me is the fact Jen didn't do anything to help him at the moment of the arrest,althought she can help-but this is,like I said,just a try for a logical assumption."
My thoughts exactly.:)
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a_giblet
a_giblet
72. RE: Why I didn't like Jenny Shepard
Dec 27 2009, 11:06 AM EST | Post edited: Dec 27 2009, 11:06 AM EST
"In general, everything we see on the shows has some meaning about the way characters are build -like Tony said once,"the devil is in the little things"-if we see a flashback,then this flashback is important for the character. Gibbs said a few times he was arrested by the French police,and he didn't like the time when he was under arrest. If you watch the flashback,it's visible that Jen was walking aways without helping him . Why,we don't know.We don't know if she helped him later-but we do know that Gibbs looked at her (with hope,from my POV) in that flashback,and she did nothing to help him.Considering the fact that exact flashback came out in a conversation about trust in "Model Bahaviour",where Gibbs said " trust is 2 way street",and right after that we see the flashback,judging by the negative moment we saw it, I doubt if she helped him on time,or if she helped him at all."
I thought that Gibbs and Ducky said that when they were arrested by the French, Jenny stole a boat and helped him and Ducky escape? I know it was mentioned in an episode that she helped both of them...that's how come Jenny and Ducky go that far back too.
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ncisislove
ncisislove
73. RE: Why I didn't like Jenny Shepard
Dec 27 2009, 11:46 AM EST | Post edited: Dec 27 2009, 11:51 AM EST
"I thought that Gibbs and Ducky said that when they were arrested by the French, Jenny stole a boat and helped him and Ducky escape? I know it was mentioned in an episode that she helped both of them...that's how come Jenny and Ducky go that far back too."
I really can't be sure if the case Ducky talked about about and Gibbs' arrest are the same cases -Ducky said he pushed French police officer off a cliff and because of that there was a warrant for his arest-and because of that he and Gibbs escaped in a sailboat.

DUCKY: Did I ever tell you about the time I shoved a French police officer off a cliff?
TONY: There was a lake below.
DUCKY: Yes. The man was all right. But they still issued a warrant for my arrest. Gibbs and I managed to keep two steps ahead of them.
Eventually we escaped across the English Channel in a sailboat.
JIMMY: You and Agent Gibbs were fugitives?
DUCKY: Yes, for a short while. Until a young upcoming NCIS agent had the charges dropped.
TONY: Jenny. I mean, Director Shepard.
DUCKY: She was the one who commandeered the boat.
MCGEE: Director Shepard stole a boat?
DUCKY: She wasn’t the Director of NCIS at the time, McGee!

My English probably is not very good,but Ducky said they MANAGED to to keep two steps ahead-which means they were not arreseted.
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loyalfan
74. RE: Why I didn't like Jenny Shepard
Dec 27 2009, 12:53 PM EST | Post edited: Dec 27 2009, 12:53 PM EST
"I really can't be sure if the case Ducky talked about about and Gibbs' arrest are the same cases -Ducky said he pushed French police officer off a cliff and because of that there was a warrant for his arest-and because of that he and Gibbs escaped in a sailboat.

DUCKY: Did I ever tell you about the time I shoved a French police officer off a cliff?
TONY: There was a lake below.
DUCKY: Yes. The man was all right. But they still issued a warrant for my arrest. Gibbs and I managed to keep two steps ahead of them.
Eventually we escaped across the English Channel in a sailboat.
JIMMY: You and Agent Gibbs were fugitives?
DUCKY: Yes, for a short while. Until a young upcoming NCIS agent had the charges dropped.
TONY: Jenny. I mean, Director Shepard.
DUCKY: She was the one who commandeered the boat.
MCGEE: Director Shepard stole a boat?
DUCKY: She wasn’t the Director of NCIS at the time, McGee!

My English probably is not very good,but Ducky said they MANAGED to to keep two steps ahead-which means they were not arreseted."
I think I am the one who started this confusion by not expressing myself clearly. The case Ducky talked about and the flashback of Gibbs being arrested with Jenny on the sideline are two different incidents. I did not mean to imply otherwise. I was trying to point out that, in neither case, do we have an indication that Jenny was unrelaible.
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a_giblet
a_giblet
75. RE: Why I didn't like Jenny Shepard
Dec 27 2009, 1:09 PM EST | Post edited: Dec 27 2009, 1:09 PM EST
"I think I am the one who started this confusion by not expressing myself clearly. The case Ducky talked about and the flashback of Gibbs being arrested with Jenny on the sideline are two different incidents. I did not mean to imply otherwise. I was trying to point out that, in neither case, do we have an indication that Jenny was unrelaible."
To a degree, she has proven unreliable, but she had her moments where she was right there helping out her agency.
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emerellda
emerellda
76. RE: Why I didn't like Jenny Shepard
Dec 27 2009, 3:50 PM EST | Post edited: Dec 27 2009, 3:50 PM EST
"To a degree, she has proven unreliable, but she had her moments where she was right there helping out her agency."
100% agree with that statement a_giblet, I think there were moments were Jenny didn't help Gibbs, like the flashback, and that has made gibbs not trust jenny as completly as some of his agents, but there are also moments which Jenny has gone well and above the call of duty to help gibbs, IMO this fragile, kinda contridictory stuff has always definned gibbs and jenny's relationsip
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a_giblet
a_giblet
77. RE: Why I didn't like Jenny Shepard
Dec 27 2009, 4:08 PM EST | Post edited: Dec 27 2009, 4:08 PM EST
"100% agree with that statement a_giblet, I think there were moments were Jenny didn't help Gibbs, like the flashback, and that has made gibbs not trust jenny as completly as some of his agents, but there are also moments which Jenny has gone well and above the call of duty to help gibbs, IMO this fragile, kinda contridictory stuff has always definned gibbs and jenny's relationsip"
Yep, you're right about that emerellda. And, to take it a step further, in Judgment Day when Gibbs realized where that shell casing came from (the one with the scratches near the base,) he was going to protect Jenny and has protected Jenny to this day. Whether she actually did it or not, we may never know but still, his silence speaks volumes to the degree of respect he still had for her.
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ncisislove
ncisislove
78. RE: Why I didn't like Jenny Shepard
Dec 27 2009, 8:39 PM EST | Post edited: Dec 27 2009, 8:50 PM EST
"100% agree with that statement a_giblet, I think there were moments were Jenny didn't help Gibbs, like the flashback, and that has made gibbs not trust jenny as completly as some of his agents, but there are also moments which Jenny has gone well and above the call of duty to help gibbs, "
So,in other words,we have a Director,who can be trusted at one point and not trusted in the other-sorry,but that doesn't wok with me-I agree with Gibbs that whoever sits on Director's chair,should have to be trusted completely-not like in Jen's case. The only Director I see really to have his agent's back-even if they don't want to- was Director Morrow.
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a_giblet
a_giblet
79. RE: Why I didn't like Jenny Shepard
Dec 27 2009, 9:05 PM EST | Post edited: Dec 27 2009, 9:05 PM EST
"So,in other words,we have a Director,who can be trusted at one point and not trusted in the other-sorry,but that doesn't wok with me-I agree with Gibbs that whoever sits on Director's chair,should have to be trusted completely-not like in Jen's case. The only Director I see really to have his agent's back-even if they don't want to- was Director Morrow."
Well if Gibbs didn't trust her, why didn't he try to have her removed?
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