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Discussion: Why I didn't like Jenny ShepardReported This is a featured thread

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dani_g
dani_g
40. RE: Why I didn't like Jenny Shepard
Dec 12 2009, 9:53 PM EST | Post edited: Dec 12 2009, 9:56 PM EST
". Alan Dale who played the original NCIS director, really didn't have too many scenes and his character didn't interact act much with the team so it was difficult for me to develope any type of feelings for his character; so I was rather ambivalent when he left the show."
I feel completely the oposite.For me Tom Morrow was the best Director of this agency . In general,I don't have to see some character many times on the screen to understand him/her- even if we barelly saw Tom Morrow,that doesn't mean he is a Director & character with no personallity-the scenes with him were powerful and showed us what type of Director he was.his presence was visible everytime he was on the screen-Gibbs never tryed to disobey his orders,like he did so often with Jen- exactly that makes me see him as a strong character-I don't need to know about his past or to see him so often on the screen like Jen to feel the charisma of this character.Jen was too ofetn on the screen without a valid reson for the Director to be there--I never saw that when Morrow was a Director.
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HardKore71
HardKore71
41. RE: Why I didn't like Jenny Shepard
Dec 12 2009, 10:17 PM EST | Post edited: Dec 12 2009, 10:41 PM EST
You got more out of his character then I did Dani. He was so uninvolved in the first 2 seasons that I couldn't read his character at all. Also, I don't recall Jenny ever offering Hollis Mann a job at NCIS, did she? Even if she did I doubt that Mann would have taken it, Mann herself was pretty up the food chain at Army CID. It's pretty normal to feel twinges of jealousy to see an ex-lover with someone else, I'm pretty sure it's happened to all of us a some point in our lives at least for me it has.. Do you find this valuable?    
dani_g
dani_g
42. RE: Why I didn't like Jenny Shepard
Dec 12 2009, 10:46 PM EST | Post edited: Dec 12 2009, 11:02 PM EST
"You got more out of his character then I did Dani. He was so uninvolved in the first 2 seasons that I couldn't read his character at all."
Like I said,there is no reason for me to see character many times on the screen to see what kind of person he-or she-is-to quote Tony,"the devil is in the little things".Morrow's actions and Gibbs attitude toward him speaks themselfs.:) It's simple as that. Oposite on that,I saw Jen kiddnapped in Jeppardy, she didn't do her job in Paris => I just can't see her as a good Director and agent,no matter how many times Gibbs said she is-the actions Jen took didn't show me that.If the writers want me to see her as a good agent/Director,they should show me that.
Jen just didn't fit for me a s a strong enough person to rule the agency. 2 other female character- Ziva and Kate-could make Gibbs listen to them and make him respect them(and they are his subordinates,not his superiors) ,so I don't see why Jen- the Director- couldn't do it too. I never saw Gibbs to respect Jen as a Director.Gibbs tryed this with Vance,with whom he has a past too,since they know eachother,but it didn't work.
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dani_g
dani_g
43. RE: Why I didn't like Jenny Shepard
Dec 12 2009, 11:09 PM EST | Post edited: Dec 12 2009, 11:27 PM EST
" Also, I don't recall Jenny ever offering Hollis Mann a job at NCIS, did she? Even if she did I doubt that Mann would have taken it, Mann herself was pretty up the food chain at Army CID. It's pretty normal to feel twinges of jealousy to see an ex-lover with someone else, I'm pretty sure it's happened to all of us a some point in our lives at least for me it has.."
Sorry for the double post.:)
Jen really offered Hollis a job:
SHEPARD:Your service at CID is up in six months. You must have started considering life after the military....
The question is how to best serve your future, where the opportunity for advancement lies.
Jen doesn't have any other reason to start that kind of the conversation exept to offer a job to Hollis-or she maybe just wanted a small talk with Hollis.:)
And yes,it's natural to be jealous ,but NOT in front of the your ex,when his girlfriend is in the same room:
SHEPARD: You’ll be working under Agent Gibbs. Your boss and I flipped a coin for it. Is that a problem?
MANN: No problem. I’m just…
GIBBS: Used to being on top.
MANN: In command, yes. But I’ve worked with Agent Gibbs before, and I’m happy to again.

Because Jen was out of line with the tone she used on " Is that a problem",Gibbs took Hollis's side.And if you notice,they both waited for Jen to dismiss them,which I found to be again shoing of disrespect,because Gibbs,the man,who never knock on the door,now,in this exact moment,waits for perission to leave the office,which is very un-characteristical for Jen/Gibbs Director/emplyee relationship. Later Jen asked again about their relationship-in "Skeletons"
SHEPARD: You two have worked cases together successfully in the past. Nothing’s changed to interfere with that professional relationship, has there?
I don't think it was a proper question in this case.
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loyalfan
44. RE: Why I didn't like Jenny Shepard
Dec 13 2009, 6:26 AM EST | Post edited: Dec 13 2009, 6:26 AM EST
Hi Hardkore71,
That is a good question. I think Gibbs would have remained silent, just as he remained silent when Mike Franks shot the man in the bar. Gibbs fully intended to take similar action against Ari. Gibbs had been taught by Mike; Jenny had been taught by Gibbs.
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HardKore71
HardKore71
45. RE: Why I didn't like Jenny Shepard
Dec 13 2009, 10:52 AM EST | Post edited: Dec 13 2009, 10:52 AM EST
"Hi Hardkore71,
That is a good question. I think Gibbs would have remained silent, just as he remained silent when Mike Franks shot the man in the bar. Gibbs fully intended to take similar action against Ari. Gibbs had been taught by Mike; Jenny had been taught by Gibbs. I got the impression that Jenny was merely curious about Mann's next course of actions professionally and to dig a bit where Mann and Gibbs' relationship was heading. I don't think she was hinting at giving her a job, and I highly doubt Mann would be naive enough to tke it."
Yea I thought the same thing, he probably would have kept his mouth shut, but I think he privately dissapproved of the whole thing cause I don't think he was entirely convinced of the Frog's guilt in Jasper Shepard's death/murder. As far as the jealousy thing is concerened yes proper decorum would be of that to restrain your emotions, but we aren't robots we all have emotions that sometimes overrride our logic it happened to Jenny that's all. Gibbs is no innocent either, he knew both women were vying for his attention/affections and he liked what was happening to small degree.
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HardKore71
HardKore71
46. RE: Why I didn't like Jenny Shepard
Dec 13 2009, 10:57 AM EST | Post edited: Dec 13 2009, 10:57 AM EST
Also I never got the impression that Jenny was offering her a gig at NCIS, just fishing to see what Mann's plans were professionally and where she was going with Gibbs in their relationship. Do you find this valuable?    

loyalfan
47. RE: Why I didn't like Jenny Shepard
Dec 13 2009, 1:33 PM EST | Post edited: Dec 13 2009, 1:33 PM EST
"Also I never got the impression that Jenny was offering her a gig at NCIS, just fishing to see what Mann's plans were professionally and where she was going with Gibbs in their relationship. "
I did not think Jenny was offering Hollis a position at NCIS, either. I, too, think she was trying to find out what her plans for retirement were. It was clear she would have preferred Hollis to be far away, from Gibbs but I think she was more than fair in writing a letter of commendation to Hollis' superior. That does not sound like a vindictive woman's behavior.
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HardKore71
HardKore71
48. RE: Why I didn't like Jenny Shepard
Dec 13 2009, 6:09 PM EST | Post edited: Dec 13 2009, 6:09 PM EST
"I did not think Jenny was offering Hollis a position at NCIS, either. I, too, think she was trying to find out what her plans for retirement were. It was clear she would have preferred Hollis to be far away, from Gibbs but I think she was more than fair in writing a letter of commendation to Hollis' superior. That does not sound like a vindictive woman's behavior."
So with you on this Loyalfan, of course she wants Mann as far away from Gibbs as possible, less competition! lol but she was more than generous writing that attagirl to her superiors. There is another thread Eli vs Gibbs? i think? that the poster suggested that Eli and Jenny were very similar in their modus operendi and were just as ruthless. I dunno if I could go that far, clearly she was gonna go all the way whatever it took to get the Frog but I think that was the extent of it. Eli, IMO is far far worse! not only would he deal dirty with his own blood he doesn't deal fairly with his allies either(USA).ex. Rivkin, Ben-Gidon Shooting that Marine (I forget his name) who was probably working an Op on behalf of SECNAV or Vance.
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emerellda
emerellda
49. RE: Why I didn't like Jenny Shepard
Dec 13 2009, 8:16 PM EST | Post edited: Dec 13 2009, 8:16 PM EST
yeah I agree, jenny might have gone to far to presure revenge, but she is no where as deep as eli, and this is only in one instance, with, if this is possible, justifiable cause for revenge, where as eli does not appear to have that strong emotions about just one person he is pursuring, let alone all of them Do you find this valuable?    
hicksi
hicksi
50. RE: Why I didn't like Jenny Shepard
Dec 13 2009, 8:36 PM EST | Post edited: Dec 13 2009, 8:36 PM EST
"yeah I agree, jenny might have gone to far to presure revenge, but she is no where as deep as eli, and this is only in one instance, with, if this is possible, justifiable cause for revenge, where as eli does not appear to have that strong emotions about just one person he is pursuring, let alone all of them"
There was a whole lot to the Character Jenny.
Remember, it was a 'boys club' of Gibbs, Ducky, Abby and DiNozzo.

They needed something more (other than the probie-hi-jinx). Good Aussie actor as he is, that wasn't going to come from a male.
They needed some counter-balance, and a female director with a 'PAST' was famous.

Then, they used her to bring Zeva into the fold (remember, Ziva and Jenny knew each other well before NCIS).

One of my favourite episodes is when Ziva joins.
Anybody else get the Sharon Stone Basic Instinct reference in the way Ziva toys with DiNozzo?

WOW, Sharon Stone was in an episode of Magnum. Gotta check out S05E01 and S05E02.
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HardKore71
HardKore71
51. RE: Why I didn't like Jenny Shepard
Dec 13 2009, 8:44 PM EST | Post edited: Dec 13 2009, 8:44 PM EST
"yeah I agree, jenny might have gone to far to presure revenge, but she is no where as deep as eli, and this is only in one instance, with, if this is possible, justifiable cause for revenge, where as eli does not appear to have that strong emotions about just one person he is pursuring, let alone all of them"
That's totally it Emerellda, look how easily Eli sends his own daughter to ASSASSINATE his own son(Used his son like toliet paper) like he meant nothing to him, and to send Rivkin to spy on his allies, kill a threat in forgeign soil, have Rivkin seduce and manipulate his daughter to protect Mossad interests. The man plays puppet master with people's lives without any conscience or remorse, and the only time he tries to act like a father to ZIva is when Gibbs is around and that's only to one up Gibbs.
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KathleenPhelan
KathleenPhelan
52. RE: Why I didn't like Jenny Shepard
Dec 14 2009, 4:13 AM EST | Post edited: Dec 14 2009, 4:13 AM EST
"Staying away won't make a patient get any better. Support for the patient and just being there, even for just awhile, is healing for a soul. I know Gibbs didn't remember anyone and telling him the truth hurt, but it helped him to come round. Visiting, sitting and talking for short periods of time can be helpful even if you aren't recognized. I don't feel it's being selfish in anyway...just being supportive."
That sounds right to me but I don't think he should have been pushed into remembering anything..but I am not a real expert on it. I didn't always like Jennie when she would flirt and didn't like it Gibbs did it.
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KathleenPhelan
KathleenPhelan
53. RE: Why I didn't like Jenny Shepard
Dec 14 2009, 4:18 AM EST | Post edited: Dec 14 2009, 4:18 AM EST
I do have a question or an observation..many people I have interacted with online have said that the directors involvement in later years (both Jennie & Vance) far too much and should have been the way it was in Alan Dales time. I would htink depending on the agency that directors do get involved in every day stuff. Do you find this valuable?    

loyalfan
54. RE: Why I didn't like Jenny Shepard
Dec 14 2009, 3:51 PM EST | Post edited: Dec 14 2009, 3:51 PM EST
"There was a whole lot to the Character Jenny.
Remember, it was a 'boys club' of Gibbs, Ducky, Abby and DiNozzo.

They needed something more (other than the probie-hi-jinx). Good Aussie actor as he is, that wasn't going to come from a male.
They needed some counter-balance, and a female director with a 'PAST' was famous.

Then, they used her to bring Zeva into the fold (remember, Ziva and Jenny knew each other well before NCIS).

One of my favourite episodes is when Ziva joins.
Anybody else get the Sharon Stone Basic Instinct reference in the way Ziva toys with DiNozzo?

WOW, Sharon Stone was in an episode of Magnum. Gotta check out S05E01 and S05E02."
You have touched upon two things that bother me about NCIS. I am disappointed to see the writers kill off the female characters - Agent Todd, Agent Lee and Director Shepard.
My second point is the idea of the "boys club", as you mentioned. Gibbs and Ducky are the strong characters, with DiNozzo trying to take a leadership role when Gibbs is not around. The idea of a female director was good and the character whom they created was very good. She provided a nice balance for the team, both in her temperment and leadership style. She brought out the best in the other characters. Her replacement with Leon simply does not add anything to the team.
Finally, I am still disappointed to see Jenny criticized for the same kinds of behaviors that we see in Gibbs. Both are passionate about what they do. Both are guilty of allowing emotion to govern their judgment once in a while ( a human response which makes them seem real), yet it is acceptable in Gibbs but unacceptable in Jennny, e.g. Jenny's pursuit of "the frog", and Gibb's wreckless pursuit of the kidnapper of Kelly' s childhood friend. I would like to see more strong female characters and see all the characters judged by the same standards.
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bellswebster
bellswebster
55. RE: Why I didn't like Jenny Shepard
Dec 14 2009, 4:57 PM EST | Post edited: Dec 14 2009, 4:57 PM EST
Ziva has a strong character loyalfan..I think she was the answer to an all male team. Sasha Alexander asked to leave NCIS because she wanted to start a family and did not want to return...as did Lauren Holly ask to leave to persue other ventures. I don't know what happens with a job vacancy when a Director leaves ...are they entitled to come back or is the position filled with the next person in line for this type of job?..Quite frankly, if Kate and Jenny hadn't of been killed off and they weren't going to return, it would be one big cat fight going on all the time on these threads to get them back...people go on about it now still..I feel they have done the right thing. People do get killed in these real life situations..unfortunately. 1  out of 1 found this valuable. Do you?    

loyalfan
56. RE: Why I didn't like Jenny Shepard
Dec 15 2009, 3:25 AM EST | Post edited: Dec 15 2009, 3:25 AM EST
"Ziva has a strong character loyalfan..I think she was the answer to an all male team. Sasha Alexander asked to leave NCIS because she wanted to start a family and did not want to return...as did Lauren Holly ask to leave to persue other ventures. I don't know what happens with a job vacancy when a Director leaves ...are they entitled to come back or is the position filled with the next person in line for this type of job?..Quite frankly, if Kate and Jenny hadn't of been killed off and they weren't going to return, it would be one big cat fight going on all the time on these threads to get them back...people go on about it now still..I feel they have done the right thing. People do get killed in these real life situations..unfortunately."
I guess my issue is that the only major characters getting killed in NCIS are the women and this is not realistic. I think , if you go to Lauren Holly's official website, you will see that she tactfully indicates she did not ask to leave the show, rather, she was written out of the show. I find it strange that she and Sasha Alexander would choose to leave the highly successful NCIS without good reason unless they were retiring from their acting careers and that does not seem to be the case.
I agree Ziva is a strong character. I disagree that her presence makes up for the absence of other influential female characters.
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dani_g
dani_g
57. RE: Why I didn't like Jenny Shepard
Dec 15 2009, 6:17 AM EST | Post edited: Dec 15 2009, 9:24 AM EST
" yet it is acceptable in Gibbs but unacceptable in Jennny, e.g. Jenny's pursuit of "the frog", and Gibb's wreckless pursuit of the kidnapper of Kelly' s childhood friend. I would like to see more strong female characters and see all the characters judged by the same standards. "
Not tue. I honestly don't believe people have double standarts -at last I don't have. From my POV people think that way,because they know Gibbs will not accuse anyone for anything if he doesn't have valid evidance or strong suspicion.Jen's obsession was not justifyed from my POV,judging from her meeting with Rene in her house-he was sure her father took a bribe-she was sure he didn't.Truth to be told, judging from Rene's behaviour-how tiredly he tryed to explain that yes,her father was indeed guilty,I had a feeling that Jen simply doesn't want to accept the truth. Gibbs may had the huge urge to find the pottential kidnapper, at last he had his reasons to think that exact man took Kelly's friend. From my POV he had more points to think the way he did-I had a feeling that Jen simply was sure in her father innocence without a valid confirmation.
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emerellda
emerellda
58. RE: Why I didn't like Jenny Shepard
Dec 15 2009, 10:41 AM EST | Post edited: Dec 15 2009, 10:41 AM EST
"You have touched upon two things that bother me about NCIS. I am disappointed to see the writers kill off the female characters - Agent Todd, Agent Lee and Director Shepard.
My second point is the idea of the "boys club", as you mentioned. Gibbs and Ducky are the strong characters, with DiNozzo trying to take a leadership role when Gibbs is not around. The idea of a female director was good and the character whom they created was very good. She provided a nice balance for the team, both in her temperment and leadership style. She brought out the best in the other characters. Her replacement with Leon simply does not add anything to the team.
Finally, I am still disappointed to see Jenny criticized for the same kinds of behaviors that we see in Gibbs. Both are passionate about what they do. Both are guilty of allowing emotion to govern their judgment once in a while ( a human response which makes them seem real), yet it is acceptable in Gibbs but unacceptable in Jennny, e.g. Jenny's pursuit of "the frog", and Gibb's wreckless pursuit of the kidnapper of Kelly' s childhood friend. I would like to see more strong female characters and see all the characters judged by the same standards. "
I totally agree with you on this point, about only killing off the female characters, this is one thing that really irks me about shows, and unfortunatly I think it has to do with theartic elements, that girls will raise far more emotions than boys, and the manner of there death, such as kate's, Jenny was such a strong woman, and I loved how they put her in such a position of power, in possibly the two most male dominated occupations, the miltary and high management positions, and it is sad, even if you didn't like the character, to see that go, and she and Ziva helped to balence out the male dominated team
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saymoi
saymoi
59. RE: Why I didn't like Jenny Shepard
Dec 15 2009, 4:25 PM EST | Post edited: Dec 15 2009, 4:25 PM EST
I liked Jenny until the episode where Tony talks to her about his love life. He doesn't mention Jeanne by name but tells the Director that he is finding himself having special feelings for someone and asks for her advice. It is obvious that Tony is talking about his assignment and when Jenny actually encouraged him in his feelings I lost all respect for her. That was the point where any responsible authority figure would have cautioned Tony. At that point she stopped looking out for her own and, essentially, stopped acting as the Director of NCIS. She was just off on her own personal mission. In some ways I think the writers used this as a means of letting Tony express his feelings and letting us know how deep his emotional connection was. Who else could he express this too? But the result of using this means of exposition was to totally negate Jenny's leadership ability. 2  out of 2 found this valuable. Do you?    
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