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Discussion: Why I didn't like Jenny ShepardReported This is a featured thread

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rosecake
rosecake
20. RE: Why I didn't like Jenny Shepard
Dec 7 2009, 3:24 PM EST | Post edited: Dec 7 2009, 3:24 PM EST
"Completely agree on this point....Tony didnt even attempt to find out more information from Jeanne about her father which is what I found strangest....he wasnt shown asking her anything about her father or snooping around except when he was checking the mail from John......."
I've always thought that Tony's mission was just hooking up (right word ?) Jeanne to meet her father and then call Jenny , but Kort screwed up everything telling LaGrenuille who really was his daughter's boyfriend !
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MargyW
MargyW
21. RE: Why I didn't like Jenny Shepard
Dec 7 2009, 3:42 PM EST | Post edited: Dec 7 2009, 3:42 PM EST
"You don't have to be there for stimulation Margy...just for support of a person you love or are worried about. They may not know you are there at first. All patients have a different way for recovery. I do know that sometimes they can hear peoples voices even though the visitors/doctors don't know it at the time. And quite frankly, sitting by someones bedside if they are going to make it or not wouldn't stop me from holding their hand and showing them my support with words whether they ever know it or not.. I do feel that Jenny Sheppard loved Gibbs, and as I have said before you don't have to be IN love with someone to love somethings about them. You have experienced a situation such as Gibbs had...I have too...didn't stop me from being there till the last moment."
Just being there can be over stimulation Bells. That's why severe head injury patients are often kept in complete isolation.

I lost two people I loved very much to severe head trauma due to vehicles accidents. None of us got to say goodbye....they were in isolation when they passed.
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bellswebster
bellswebster
22. RE: Why I didn't like Jenny Shepard
Dec 7 2009, 3:58 PM EST | Post edited: Dec 7 2009, 3:58 PM EST
"Just being there can be over stimulation Bells. That's why severe head injury patients are often kept in complete isolation.

I lost two people I loved very much to severe head trauma due to vehicles accidents. None of us got to say goodbye....they were in isolation when they passed."
I'm sorry to hear that Margy...it's always hard when you don't get the chance to say goodbye.
I was allowed in isolation for a short time to say goodbye if the worst happened ....different doctors....different hospitals...different people's feelings for others I guess.
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emerellda
emerellda
23. RE: Why I didn't like Jenny Shepard
Dec 7 2009, 8:29 PM EST | Post edited: Dec 7 2009, 8:29 PM EST
Personally I really liked Jenny, and was very upset when she died, and although I can totally see why some people did not like her, IMO, Jenny had alot to cope with and handle, and she had to make some very difficult desicions in her life, which I am sure she did not take lightly, for me jenny, was always committed, and prepared to go the extra mile to help out, like when she found case files, and called judges to help get warrents, yes she may not have done this to every team, we don't know, and it may possibly be overusing her power, but it shows that she is willing to go up and beyond her job description, to help out other people, as both a woman, and younger than several of her employes, not to mention other associates, Jenny was instantly put at a disadvantage, because, honestly a world like that is not ready for a female leader, and so she had to appear ruthless, and more direct and ambitious, so that she could carry some weight and importance, and to properally represent the needs of NCIS, and yes she may have gotten obsessed with la genroullie, but she honestly believed that he killed her father, and no one believed her, so after searching for 10 years, it is understandable that she would have gotten obsessed, not nessarily the right thing to do, but inderstandable, but overall, I think that Jenny, as a female director, shows us the position of woman in high exacutive positions, who have to struggle to balence the kind and softer characteristics, with those more agressive, which are needed for the job, which is difficult, and, IMO, can change woman, who are commited to it, but all throughout the series, Jenny was always loyal, and always committed, IMO 2  out of 4 found this valuable. Do you?    
HardKore71
HardKore71
24. RE: Why I didn't like Jenny Shepard
Dec 7 2009, 8:55 PM EST | Post edited: Dec 7 2009, 8:55 PM EST
Overall I liked Jenny, yes she had her faults and misdeeds. Yes, she did Gibbs dirty by leaving him in the lurch in that OP in Paris, but we never knew the full extent of the OP, and maybe she had to leave him behind as to not jeapordize the OP. Clearly she had target fixation with the Frog, and used the hell outta DiNozzo(Although I think she thought he was a player, and really thought there was no chance in him developing feelings for Jeanne) but, she was brave, tough, and loyal to her people underneath her. If a man acts that ruthless or goal oriented in acheaving his goals, he is considered a good leader, but if a woman in power operates in the same manner as a man she is considered a "*****" or a ***buster(sorry for vulgarity). I think in many ways Jenny had to be that ruthless to make it that high the food chain, but in the process lost some of her soul or humanity. just my opinion 1  out of 1 found this valuable. Do you?    

loyalfan
25. RE: Why I didn't like Jenny Shepard
Dec 8 2009, 11:51 AM EST | Post edited: Dec 8 2009, 11:51 AM EST
HardKore71, I found your comments interesting and I agree with almost all of them. I found Jenny to be the most complex and interesting character in NCIS - yes even more interesting than Gibbs. Gibbs is Gibbs and we pretty much know the events from his past that have defined his life. that was not the case with Jenny. There was still much that we did not know about her, her past, her relationship with her father and the events that shaped her life. Of all the characters, she seemed the most real. As you pointed out, the demands of her position perhaps stole some of her soul, but, through it all, she still came through as a devoted and caring person who had made major sacrifices to do a good job. I found it easy to admire her for what she had accomplished. I still bellieve she added much to the show, due in no small part to the excellent acting of Lauren Holly, who made her fairly brief appearances meaningful. NCIS is missing something without her character. Even Gibbs was more interesting under Jenny's watchful eye. Do you find this valuable?    
HardKore71
HardKore71
26. RE: Why I didn't like Jenny Shepard
Dec 9 2009, 8:15 AM EST | Post edited: Dec 9 2009, 8:15 AM EST
Thank you Loyalfan, I also really liked Jenny Shepard and was sad to see her go. Alan Dale who played the original NCIS director, really didn't have too many scenes and his character didn't interact act much with the team so it was difficult for me to develope any type of feelings for his character; so I was rather ambivalent when he left the show. Do you find this valuable?    

Kiamari
27. RE: Why I didn't like Jenny Shepard
Dec 9 2009, 11:33 AM EST | Post edited: Dec 9 2009, 11:33 AM EST
"5.Selfish - From what I remember Gibbs never asked her.....she was definitely ambitious, but I wouldnt call her selfish for that reason."
I don't remember the episode this particular scene is in, but...

GIBBS: "You need to learn to say 'no', Jen."
JENNY: "I already did, Jethro. Or had you forgotten?"

Inference: Gibbs proposed, and Jenny turned him down.

I never really liked Jenny much at all. She was forever creating messes, and I wonder how she managed to keep her Director's position. She was deceitful and selfish. not admirable qualities in any person.
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HardKore71
HardKore71
28. RE: Why I didn't like Jenny Shepard
Dec 9 2009, 1:19 PM EST | Post edited: Dec 9 2009, 1:19 PM EST
"I don't remember the episode this particular scene is in, but...

GIBBS: "You need to learn to say 'no', Jen."
JENNY: "I already did, Jethro. Or had you forgotten?"

Inference: Gibbs proposed, and Jenny turned him down.

I never really liked Jenny much at all. She was forever creating messes, and I wonder how she managed to keep her Director's position. She was deceitful and selfish. not admirable qualities in any person."
Gibbs asked, she turned him down and both moved on until they became reacquainted in Kill Ari. She didn't string him along and told him where he stood exactly with her at that point; she would have been selfish if she tried to play it both ways but she didn't. She never deceived Gibbs about the Frog OP, she just kept him outta the loop. The only thing she was guilty or deceitful about that I can really remember is when she told Gibbs it wasn't personal between her and the Frog. If anyone can eloborate on this, it would help. As always everyone is entitled to their own opinion, and I'm not saying you are right or wrong it's just the way I saw things between them.
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Kiamari
29. RE: Why I didn't like Jenny Shepard
Dec 9 2009, 2:13 PM EST | Post edited: Dec 9 2009, 2:13 PM EST
"Gibbs asked, she turned him down and both moved on until they became reacquainted in Kill Ari. She didn't string him along and told him where he stood exactly with her at that point; she would have been selfish if she tried to play it both ways but she didn't. She never deceived Gibbs about the Frog OP, she just kept him outta the loop. The only thing she was guilty or deceitful about that I can really remember is when she told Gibbs it wasn't personal between her and the Frog. If anyone can eloborate on this, it would help. As always everyone is entitled to their own opinion, and I'm not saying you are right or wrong it's just the way I saw things between them."
I was referring to the earleir post that stated that Gibbs didn't 'fit into her plan' and that she dumped him. She was selfish enough to stay with him until he became a hindrance to her plans, and then she dropped him like a hot potato.
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HardKore71
HardKore71
30. RE: Why I didn't like Jenny Shepard
Dec 9 2009, 8:04 PM EST | Post edited: Dec 9 2009, 8:04 PM EST
"I did like Jenny and I think the show has suffered without her. She provided a nice balance for the team. As I read all the criticism of her for her obsession with LaGrenouille, I wonder why there is no similar criticism for Gibb's pursuit of Ari. He made is abundantly clear the only way he would bring him in was dead, straight to autopsy. He was obsessed with avenging the death of his agent. Why is it so surprising that Jenny would be obsessed with avenging the death of her father by bringing down a large player in the international arms market? It sounds like there is a double standard here (just a pet peeve of mine).
I think there are many examples of Jenny trying to do the right thing by her team. Her concern over Jethro after his exposure to a chemical weapon went virtually unnoticed. As a result of Hollis ignoring Jenny's concern, he was nearly killed by the suspect. The time she spent at his bedside while he was in coma worrying about whether or not he was in pain also seems to have gone unnoticed. Also never mentioned, is her ability to keep him from "shooting from the hip" in favor of getting all the facts before taking action (e.g. his reaction to the kidnapping of his daughter's childhood friend) and her success in working with related agencies in a way most beneficial to NCIS, something Jethro could never do."
That was really well written Loyalfan, aside from her obsession and bad judgement with the whole Frog Op Jenny was a good Director and I really believe she cared greatly for Gibbs and the rest of the team. And Gibbs would have done anything to avenge Kate, there is no doubt in my mind about that.
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yichelle
yichelle
31. RE: Why I didn't like Jenny Shepard
Dec 9 2009, 9:43 PM EST | Post edited: Dec 9 2009, 9:43 PM EST
"I was referring to the earleir post that stated that Gibbs didn't 'fit into her plan' and that she dumped him. She was selfish enough to stay with him until he became a hindrance to her plans, and then she dropped him like a hot potato."
Hi Kiamari,
My take in on the situation is that I think Gibbs and jenny were sent to Paris/Europe together on a mission. When the mission ended, Gibbs may have asked her to marry him/come back to D.C with him but she chose to stay on in Paris on another mission not based in D.C. I don't feel that she was staying with him until he became a hindrance, it was more that their mission together overseas had ended.
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MargyW
MargyW
32. RE: Why I didn't like Jenny Shepard
Dec 10 2009, 8:10 AM EST | Post edited: Dec 10 2009, 8:10 AM EST
"Hi Kiamari,
My take in on the situation is that I think Gibbs and jenny were sent to Paris/Europe together on a mission. When the mission ended, Gibbs may have asked her to marry him/come back to D.C with him but she chose to stay on in Paris on another mission not based in D.C. I don't feel that she was staying with him until he became a hindrance, it was more that their mission together overseas had ended. "
Gibbs asked her to return to be with him to be with him. She said no. Then sent him a Dear John letter when he had returned to the USA.
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loyalfan
33. RE: Why I didn't like Jenny Shepard
Dec 12 2009, 10:53 AM EST | Post edited: Dec 12 2009, 10:53 AM EST
Hi Kiamari,
I disagree that Jenny was selfish. I cannot watch Bait, Hiatus, Lost and Found, Dog Tags, Requiem, Chimera or Judgment Day without noticing that she cares very much about her team members and her work. The exchange with Gibbs which included him saying, "You've got to learn to say 'no' "and Jenny saying, "I already did, Jethro. Or have you forgotten?," began with Gibbs shouting and insulting Jenny by calling her a "junior director." She was just responding in kind. We don't know that she viewed him as a hindrance or "dropped" him in Europe. As vichelle points out, their mission was coming to a conclusion and both needed to make a decision about what was next in their careers. Jenny chose career over personal life but that does not make her selfish. She was honest about it. I wonder just how close their relationship really was on an emotional level when Gibbs had never even shared the fact that he once had a wife and daughter. Jenny was deeply hurt when she found out about his family in Hiatus. She brought it up to him in a later episode. In regard to her comment about Gibbs not fitting into her "5-point plan", she was being sarcastic to herself in reflecting on some decisions which she later regretted.
I find it interesting that we can look at the same character and see almost exact opposites. I think complex characters often present contradictions; obviously, Jenny does.
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HardKore71
HardKore71
34. RE: Why I didn't like Jenny Shepard
Dec 12 2009, 1:50 PM EST | Post edited: Dec 12 2009, 1:50 PM EST
As I said before, if she tried to play it both ways to me that woulda been selfish, she chose career over love and later I think deeply regretted her decision. It seems to me that she realized this after they were reunited at NCIS, and Gibbs dating Mann, Gibbs playing with kids in Lost and Found and Honor Code, and finding out that she had a terminal disease. Do you find this valuable?    
rosecake
rosecake
35. RE: Why I didn't like Jenny Shepard
Dec 12 2009, 2:11 PM EST | Post edited: Dec 12 2009, 2:11 PM EST
"As I said before, if she tried to play it both ways to me that woulda been selfish, she chose career over love and later I think deeply regretted her decision. It seems to me that she realized this after they were reunited at NCIS, and Gibbs dating Mann, Gibbs playing with kids in Lost and Found and Honor Code, and finding out that she had a terminal disease."
Yes , you're right . Jenny chose her career and her vengeance (LaGrenouille) instead of having a love story , and maybe a family too , with Gibbs , and she had so many regrets about that . Just think what she told Tony at the end of "Singled Out" and what she told Franks at Desert Diner on "Judgement Day 1" .
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HardKore71
HardKore71
36. RE: Why I didn't like Jenny Shepard
Dec 12 2009, 5:09 PM EST | Post edited: Dec 12 2009, 5:09 PM EST
The sad part is she got her vengence, but at what price? Did it make her happy or make her life and career complete? Gibbs knew she killed the frog, so even if she hadn't died in Judgement Day, do you think Gibbs would have turned her in or kept silent? Do you find this valuable?    
ncisislove
ncisislove
37. RE: Why I didn't like Jenny Shepard
Dec 12 2009, 9:20 PM EST | Post edited: Dec 12 2009, 9:20 PM EST
"2.Obsessive - So was Gibbs when trying to catch Ari 3. ...And the situation quoted from Hiatus - could you blame her for it under those circumstances?6. Jealous - I wouldnt blame her. Gibbs has that effect - LOL! While I admit Jenny wasnt my favorite, I certainly didnt dislike her....."
2.Gibbs will NEVER involve his team in his own personal vendetta,like Jen did.She sent Tony undercover without telling anyone about it-the team can be in danger,and Tony would not be able to help them- she should let Gibbs know one of his agent is busy with other case and will not be with thwe team all the time.3.Yes,I can -because there are rules and regulations for a reason in the hospital-the only reason she could give by insisting to get in for me was to help Gibbs-but she didn't have any experiance like a doctor,so I don't think it was necessary to offend the head nurce.6.I can blame that on this -not because of Gibbs'effect,but because she acts like a dog,who don't want to eat the bone,but don't want to give it to someone else too.
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ncisislove
ncisislove
38. RE: Why I didn't like Jenny Shepard
Dec 12 2009, 9:26 PM EST | Post edited: Dec 12 2009, 9:26 PM EST
"My blog entry for the day.

http://cbsncis.wetpaint.com/page/NCIS+MODERATORS%27+BLOG+56

As always, any feedback/discussion would be great."
Again,you read my mind,MargyW.:)

The other reasons I dislike the character:
she dug up Gibbs caseswith no reason-- yes,she was the Director,but she have a faith in Gibbs-he taught her almost everything she knows.For me there are 2 possibilities-she don't trust Gibbs/I don't think this was a case,but it is possible-Gibbs doesn't have a reputation of the person,who plays by the rules,althought he never implicate the agency in trouble/,or she want to be near him-in this case I saw her like a weak character,who can't hold on the decisions she made/"there will be not 'off the job"(Kill Ari,I)/
She almost never put Gibbs on his place.And the team didn't respect Jen unless they were forced to do it, because, more often than not the team would go against her orders without much of a consequence.
She didn't tell Gibbs about she screw up in Paris,when she knew about the the danger in JD-if she and Mike were dead,Gibbs could've be killed too-he didn't know about the danger.
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ncisislove
ncisislove
39. RE: Why I didn't like Jenny Shepard
Dec 12 2009, 9:31 PM EST | Post edited: Dec 12 2009, 9:33 PM EST
"Jenny chose career over personal life but that does not make her selfish. She was honest about it. "
Of course not-but to be jealous about his new love relationship ,since she was the one,who ended the relationship, shows me she is a selfish person.On that I completely agree with MargyW.
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