Sign in or 

|
shalomziva |
80. RE: Discuss 7.03 The Inside Man HERE!
Oct 8 2009, 5:09 AM EDT
"Think about it hun, Ziva has basically been through hell and back these last few months. Think of the worst thing imaginable that could have happened to her whilst being held captive and then times that over by ten. No matter what type of training you’ve had, an experience like that will completely change you, even if you don’t let the extent of that change show. And with all of that, add the every other issue Ziva has been through with Rivkin, Eli, Gibbs and Tony. That’s *a lot* to take on, even for the strongest of persons. Now, imagine that you are in Tony's position. The person who has been an almost constant in your life for four years, the person's whose relationship with yourself is completely complicated yet not complicated at the same time, went through what Ziva went through and now that person is back in your life after so much happened, after your complete relationship was destroyed and you really are unsure of where you stand with one another now. Would you really know how to act? Wouldn’t you fall back into the roll that you both played *before* the past happened, because that is what is comfortable for each of you and that’s the only way you know how to make your relationship function? Wouldn’t you stay that way until you're both ready to deal with the consequences of the past? I know, I would.Exactly! Do you find this valuable? |
|
rosecake |
81. RE: Discuss 7.03 The Inside Man HERE!
Oct 8 2009, 6:02 AM EDT
In another thread we've discussed about the truth serum , for a long time , and we've found out that it isn't a real truth serum , so we can't based our speculations completely on what Tony said . Between Tony and Ziva there have always been a great sexual tension , but not more else (base on what we've seen and not we've supposed) . I think they have got to talk about what happened in last year and half . They can't resolve everything with the little chat in the men's room . Thinking about what Michael Weatherly said about Tony , I think that our Senior Field Angent is in a deep personal crisis . I think Tony has a treble problem with Ziva . First : he wants to know what she really feels for him . Second : he's not sure that she'll stay at NCIS , and he can't risk his heart with another woman (after Jeanne) , even if she should be just a friend . Third : maybe he's still angry with her , because without her many lies all things happened in the last months would have never happened . I'm talking about Michael ; his mission in LA and in Washington ; the relationnship between him and Ziva ; the threat of Ziva to kill Tony ; and all Mossad stuff ... Without Ziva's lies Tony (and McGee) would have never risked their lives going in Africa (before for revenge and after to save her)... There are too many things that had to be solved , not to mention that the mission in Africa (tortures , blows , drugs , life at risk) would has changed even the strongest man/woman in the world ! Maybe in the next episode we'll have some explanations . It seems to be clue episode ! We've got to wait ! Why is not already Tuesday (Wednesday for me) ?! Can't wait ! 3 out of 3 found this valuable. Do you? |
|
Tivagirl |
82. RE: Discuss 7.03 The Inside Man HERE!
Oct 8 2009, 8:09 AM EDT
"Speaking of Ziva and her citizenship issue, I've been wondering how or if she will be able to become a US citizen. That would ba a HUGE move for her because she has lived in Israel almost her whole life and thats where shes from. I also wonder since she resigned from mossad, if shes here legally or will be able to stay for long if she doen't get citizenship somehow, but I hope she does!!! I think it'll be very interesting whatever happens though..."Maybe she could seek political aslyum, if proven Daddy David set her up to be taken hostage? 1 out of 1 found this valuable. Do you? |
|
imatwin247 |
83. RE: Discuss 7.03 The Inside Man HERE!
Oct 8 2009, 8:15 AM EDT
"In another thread we've discussed about the truth serum , for a long time , and we've found out that it isn't a real truth serum , so we can't based our speculations completely on what Tony said . Between Tony and Ziva there have always been a great sexual tension , but not more else (base on what we've seen and not we've supposed) . I think they have got to talk about what happened in last year and half . They can't resolve everything with the little chat in the men's room . Thinking about what Michael Weatherly said about Tony , I think that our Senior Field Angent is in a deep personal crisis . I think Tony has a treble problem with Ziva . First : he wants to know what she really feels for him . Second : he's not sure that she'll stay at NCIS , and he can't risk his heart with another woman (after Jeanne) , even if she should be just a friend . Third : maybe he's still angry with her , because without her many lies all things happened in the last months would have never happened . I'm talking about Michael ; his mission in LA and in Washington ; the relationnship between him and Ziva ; the threat of Ziva to kill Tony ; and all Mossad stuff ... Without Ziva's lies Tony (and McGee) would have never risked their lives going in Africa (before for revenge and after to save her)... There are too many things that had to be solved , not to mention that the mission in Africa (tortures , blows , drugs , life at risk) would has changed even the strongest man/woman in the world ! Maybe in the next episode we'll have some explanations . It seems to be clue episode !i agree with alot of what you say. however, how do you know that it wasnt truth serum? obviously it was some type of it since he tried fighting not telling all that information but ended up telling him. it was def some type of it. Do you find this valuable? |
|
weatherlywatcher49 |
84. RE: Discuss 7.03 The Inside Man HERE!
Oct 8 2009, 8:43 AM EDT
I know in reality that Ziva couldn't actually be a citizen, etc. But as someone else stated, this is television. They can write whatever. However, NCIS has always tried to stay true to what the actual agency is like so.....If they go for the television thing and say that Ziva can be a USA citizen, blah, blah....I still don't know that Gibbs would sign off on recommending her for the job. Gibbs believes in loyalty and honesty above all else and Ziva lied to him. Not just about Michael (she didn't tell him everything she knew....she lied by omission) but especially about Ari. That is why he accepted her on the team in the first place. Because she had saved his life. Now he finds out that she was ordered to do it in the first place. I think he understood when she explained things to him in "Reunion" but I don't know that he has forgiven her yet. Or if he will ever fully trust her again. Gibbs has always had that little niggling in the back of his mind that Ziva was trained as an assassin (remember Jeopardy) so this doesn't help her case. And if Gibbs finds out that Ziva told Tony she almost shot him....well, that would be another mark against her. Even though Gibbs understood that she was upset at the time, something like that could not go unnoticed on a team. After watching the promos for the next episode, I am wondering if Gibbs will have more to worry about if Ziva comes clean about everything that happened to her. From the way they talked about the crew being executed and seeing Ziva with a gun, it could be that she helped her captors kill them. Think Patty Hearst where she helped her kidnappers rob a bank. Maybe she was forced to do this....whatever...but if this is true, that will be another nail in her coffin as far as Gibbs is concerned. I love Ziva and I hope she stays on the team. But I think she's gonna have some rough road ahead with PTSD. 1 out of 1 found this valuable. Do you? |
|
weatherlywatcher49 |
85. RE: Discuss 7.03 The Inside Man HERE!
Oct 8 2009, 8:54 AM EDT
I so agree with you tonysme! Don't get me wrong. I love McGee and am glad that he isn't doing that mean smirky thing he was doing last year. I loved "Truth or Consequences" because it seemed that since Ziva was gone, Tony and Tim had really bonded as peers and friends. Both of them funny but yet smart. Now that Ziva has returned, they are turning Tony into goofy guy again. I love Tony's sense of humor, but I like it when they mix it with the strong, confident guy from the last few episodes of S6 and the first one of s7. I can kinda understand Gibbs' cold shoulder treatment of Ziva. She lied to him and Gibbs doesn't like that, no matter how much he cares about a person. I always felt that he cold shouldered Tony for a time after it came out that Tony had been involved in the undercover operation with Jenny. Which wasn't fair since Gibbs was gone when the undercover operation was set into motion and Tony had already agreed to keep quiet before Gibbs ever returned home. In fact, I always felt that Gibbs messed up that whole coming back thing.....the way he handled it, but that's another story. I believe it will be a while before Ziva is back in his good graces again. This season reminds me of last season. I love the show, I don't like it when they screw too much with the relationships and that's what they did last year. I was hoping it wouldn't be like that this year, especially after seeing how well Tony and McGee were getting along and getting to see some Tony and Gibbs father/son talks again. In S6, Gibbs fought to get everyone back, especially Tony (he had to really convince Vance on that one), but then it seemed as if he distanced himself from them, especially Tony. I don't know if Gibbs was afraid to get close again because he doesn't know what Vance is going to do (maybe pull that trick again) or what, but I didn't like it. Now, here we go again. 1 out of 1 found this valuable. Do you? |
|
weatherlywatcher49 |
86. RE: Discuss 7.03 The Inside Man HERE!
Oct 8 2009, 9:10 AM EDT
"I wasn't speaking of Ziva- I was talking about Tony. Yes Tony had been beat up but...Tony has been shot at, the recipient of the plaque, kidnapped and drugged and confined in a locked room, etc. etc. My point was that he couldn't settle with the story he was hearing about Ziva's demise and carried out a plan to seek revenge in her name regardless she was probably dead. After all of this, he is still questioning if Ziva is coming back to NCIS. She comes back, she is given the cold shoulder by Gibbs. Tony snapped back to the old Tony awfully quick."As far as Tony is concerned, I have to agree about the PTSD. Tony snapped back to the old Tony because that's all he knows to do. Tony doesn't share his real feelings that often with anyone. Think about what he told Ziva in "Truth or Consequences." He said, "Listen, you should know that I've taken some kind of truth serum so if there's any questions that you don't want to know the answer to......" He was trying so hard not to reveal anything to Ziva, even under the effects of the truth serum. Now that that is no longer an issue and Ziva is safe again, Tony has once again put on his mask of eternal frat boy so the others can't see how he was affected. As far as the plague thing goes, which is as close to Tony dying as he has ever come before the dessert operation, he is still affected by that as well. Remember "Chimera?" So while Tony does get scared and things do affect him deeply, he hides behind his funny guy mask because he's afraid of actually letting go and showing any real emotions.....unless he has to. He also probably hasn't talked to Ziva because, as someone else mentioned, they are just starting to forgive one another. You can't just jump from that to being a couple, or even friends again. This takes time. JMO. 1 out of 1 found this valuable. Do you? |
|
imatwin247 |
87. RE: Discuss 7.03 The Inside Man HERE!
Oct 8 2009, 9:19 AM EDT
"As far as Tony is concerned, I have to agree about the PTSD. Tony snapped back to the old Tony because that's all he knows to do. Tony doesn't share his real feelings that often with anyone. Think about what he told Ziva in "Truth or Consequences." He said, "Listen, you should know that I've taken some kind of truth serum so if there's any questions that you don't want to know the answer to......" He was trying so hard not to reveal anything to Ziva, even under the effects of the truth serum. Now that that is no longer an issue and Ziva is safe again, Tony has once again put on his mask of eternal frat boy so the others can't see how he was affected. As far as the plague thing goes, which is as close to Tony dying as he has ever come before the dessert operation, he is still affected by that as well. Remember "Chimera?" So while Tony does get scared and things do affect him deeply, he hides behind his funny guy mask because he's afraid of actually letting go and showing any real emotions.....unless he has to.i agree with what you said. i wonder if ziva will confront him wit these issues. like somehow.. expose him of what he is doing. but it seems that they're both acting the same way.. their responses. both acting as if everything is normal as though the whole africa thing didnt happen. however, ziva is acting "cheery" (so they think she is fine) and thats defiantly not her. and i think gibbs knows that.. and thats y he is hesitant to whether or not shes ready for the job. 1 out of 1 found this valuable. Do you? |
|
cassierules |
88. RE: Discuss 7.03 The Inside Man HERE! A long winded short reveiw.
Oct 8 2009, 9:30 AM EDT
What to say about this episode? What the heck to say?Let's start with DAMNTHATHWASJUSTSOAWESOMEWHOOOOO! Now....The Inside Man was really the type of episode I'd been wanting ever since the "Legend" arc. I get that NCIS wants to expand it's universe, use everything that they've collected up over the years and that some of you guys sre a fan of that, but there's appeal in these structured self-contained little gems. They're not the amazing ones, but they're the kind of stuff that made NCIS so good in the first place, intruiging plots and character-driven stories. The case was typical procedural stuff, though McGee and DiNozzo's "methods" kept it afloat. The scene with the dogs in the impond lot was pure magic. I knew they weren't going to get out, but I kept cheering for them anyway and shouted "Failures!" at the screen when the cop had his gun pointed at them. Anyone else hear the "game over" music? LOL McGee's little "romance" with the (creepy, creepy, creepy) polygraph lady was played to perfection as a running gag. Loved Abby's little bit about SA Ketchner...retake means fired! But really, she's really creepy. This wasn't Abby's episode in the slightest, butI love how the producers are redeeming her from the four-year-old tantrum child she was in S6 to our favorite quirky forensic genius, but still showing she cares. Like near the end, where she was offering Girls' Night to Ziva, you knew that she was worried for her friend and just wanted evrything to kind of be normal, even though she knew a hug wasn't going to do that. Awwwww. Big highlight of course was Ziva's resignation from Mossad, and applying to be an NCIS agent. How that's even possible in this TV-land (between Eli David and Gibbs' own hesitation) has me stumped... 3 out of 3 found this valuable. Do you? |
|
rosecake |
89. RE: Discuss 7.03 The Inside Man HERE!
Oct 8 2009, 11:29 AM EDT
"i agree with alot of what you say. however, how do you know that it wasnt truth serum? obviously it was some type of it since he tried fighting not telling all that information but ended up telling him. it was def some type of it. "Yes , it was some type of it , but Tony was stil able to hide many things from Saleem , otherwise he would has told Saleem that there was Gibbs , outside the prison , ready to kill him , or when he described all NCIS members , he said something , but he didn't give him crucial informations . Talking to a friend of mine (a doctor) and to another member of this site , I came to know that Sodium Penthotal mix with other things , gives you a relaxing sensation like if you were drunk , and very often the people that take this "serum" babble instead of telling the truth . If you go to "T or C" thread , you'll find a long discussion about this argument . I'm still conviced that Tony was able to control some part of what he was saying and he was fighting to himself because he didn't want to tell Saleem anything , as he said at the begining of the episode ... And now that I'm thinking about it , another thing comes to my mind : maybe Tony feels guilty , because he didn't hide everything he knows from Saleem . It could be another reason of his behaviour . 1 out of 1 found this valuable. Do you? |
|
girlinabox |
90. RE: Discuss 7.03 The Inside Man HERE!
Oct 8 2009, 1:10 PM EDT
"Yes , it was some type of it , but Tony was stil able to hide many things from Saleem , otherwise he would has told Saleem that there was Gibbs , outside the prison , ready to kill him , or when he described all NCIS members , he said something , but he didn't give him crucial informations . Talking to a friend of mine (a doctor) and to another member of this site , I came to know that Sodium Penthotal mix with other things , gives you a relaxing sensation like if you were drunk , and very often the people that take this "serum" babble instead of telling the truth . If you go to "T or C" thread , you'll find a long discussion about this argument . I'm still conviced that Tony was able to control some part of what he was saying and he was fighting to himself because he didn't want to tell Saleem anything , as he said at the begining of the episode ... And now that I'm thinking about it , another thing comes to my mind : maybe Tony feels guilty , because he didn't hide everything he knows from Saleem . It could be another reason of his behaviour . "Tony answered all the questions Saleem asked him. The answers weren't specific detailed secrets. Tony gave valid (lol) answers to Saleem's questions. And when Tony told Saleem he was there to kill him it was in the very beginning, the serum may not have kicked in yet, but technically Tony was there to kill Saleem, not specifically Tony, but that was the mission. And if I understand the concept of a "truth serum" correctly, it's job is to prevent the person from being able to think of a lie by muddling up their head. And who knows what else Saleem had in his Sodium Penthotal mix, he could have made his own brand of drug for all we know. And I'm not sure how much training NCIS gives its agents to combat "truth serum". They aren't spies. 1 out of 1 found this valuable. Do you? |
|
girlinabox |
91. RE: Discuss 7.03 The Inside Man HERE!
Oct 8 2009, 1:16 PM EDT
| Post edited: Oct 8 2009, 1:17 PM EDT
(contin...)Tony didn't know how to deal with the serum because he tried to fight it by keeping his mouth shut, which makes things worse. But thankfully talking/babbling is something Tony does very well. Tony had no control but he tried. Only people who are trained regarding "truth serums" can pull the babbling trick. Its a compound messing with your brain chemistry. Not to mention all the emotions that you have to deal with regarding the situation of being kidnapped and held hostage by terrorists. I know Tony said he wasn't terrified, but the adrenaline was still pumping. Tony didn't lie, he tried to misdirect, but he didn't lie. I applaud our lovable Tony :) 1 out of 1 found this valuable. Do you? |
|
mariah4568 |
92. RE: Discuss 7.03 The Inside Man HERE!
Oct 8 2009, 1:44 PM EDT
| Post edited: Oct 8 2009, 1:45 PM EDT
I am worried about all the stuff with Ziva's rejection and made a research through Internet. If you have a Green card for 5 years or more you can apply for US citizenship. I made my maths and it could be possibly, more or less, that Ziva have asked for US citizenship and became part of NCIS. So, can't wait to watch the next episode. How about all of you? LOL I have my theory about Vance and Ziva's Dad being the reason for her rejection. You tell me!
2
out of
2 found this valuable.
Do you?
|
|
imatwin247 |
93. RE: Discuss 7.03 The Inside Man HERE!
Oct 8 2009, 2:19 PM EDT
"Yes , it was some type of it , but Tony was stil able to hide many things from Saleem , otherwise he would has told Saleem that there was Gibbs , outside the prison , ready to kill him , or when he described all NCIS members , he said something , but he didn't give him crucial informations . Talking to a friend of mine (a doctor) and to another member of this site , I came to know that Sodium Penthotal mix with other things , gives you a relaxing sensation like if you were drunk , and very often the people that take this "serum" babble instead of telling the truth . If you go to "T or C" thread , you'll find a long discussion about this argument . I'm still conviced that Tony was able to control some part of what he was saying and he was fighting to himself because he didn't want to tell Saleem anything , as he said at the begining of the episode ... And now that I'm thinking about it , another thing comes to my mind : maybe Tony feels guilty , because he didn't hide everything he knows from Saleem . It could be another reason of his behaviour . "yeah... maybe it was a mix... but still.. it was some type of truth serum.. but you are right on how he could hide some things.. but needed/had to tell some of the truth. ps - earlier i wrote a comment about something said in that ep. i said that after tony was injected with the serum he said "im hear to kill ya" and then later, right before gibbs shoots saleem, he says "i never said i was going to be the one that was going to kill you." im guessing he meant that his team/ncis in general is there to kill him.. but still.. you know what i mean. 1 out of 1 found this valuable. Do you? |
|
Nkisslover494 |
94. RE: Discuss 7.03 The Inside Man HERE!
Oct 8 2009, 4:49 PM EDT
I agree with what you said weatherlywatcher49 (post 86). Abby also said to Ziva in Reunion that Tony hides his emotiones (or something like that) with his soft funny guy mask on the outside but hes rock hard on the inside. I love Tony but I would really like to see him be a little more serious and also find out more about him. One thing I'm scared of is that they'll have him go back like he was in season 6 with never-ending joking and all that stupid stuff and hardly ever see him be for real. I like how Tonys funny and don't want to see it all go away, but sometimes it seems to go to far and I kinda get tired of it... I would really like to see the more serious side of Tony this season. Hes got to quit hiding at some point and I think theres some things that he needs to say but won't tell anyone... Maybe later he can open up to Ziva, or even Gibbs, but I guess we'll just have see what happens.
1
out of
1 found this valuable.
Do you?
|
|
TrinaXO |
95. RE: Discuss 7.03 The Inside Man HERE!
Oct 8 2009, 5:32 PM EDT
Hi I'm a brand newbie to the boards, I think everyone is making valid points, thought I'd add my 2 cents. Loved the epp the bond between Tony and McGee is great verry funny. I am concerned as some ppl have expressed about our senior field agent. I think while everyone is worried about Ziva ( rightly so) they are missing Tony's problems. Ppl have mentioned that Tony has reverted back to silly ways and some have mentioned PTSD in regards to his actions, I think your bang on! Remember season 6 again ppl mentioned Tony crazy behavior, what happened before well the director died Tony blamed himself and was sent away as agent afloat that in it's self would cause PTSD, they guy finally works through some things towards season 6, is a bit more serious and BAM another set of issues. Remember what Tony said to Paula about Kates death. He does what he always does and doesn't think about it. He doesn't deal with his problems and burries them inside. He help others but Someone needs to help him!Anyhoo my 2 cents. Love Ncis! Love Tony! Need Tony's humor! 1 out of 1 found this valuable. Do you? |
|
imatwin247 |
96. RE: Discuss 7.03 The Inside Man HERE!
Oct 8 2009, 5:34 PM EDT
"I agree with what you said weatherlywatcher49 (post 86). Abby also said to Ziva in Reunion that Tony hides his emotiones (or something like that) with his soft funny guy mask on the outside but hes rock hard on the inside. I love Tony but I would really like to see him be a little more serious and also find out more about him. One thing I'm scared of is that they'll have him go back like he was in season 6 with never-ending joking and all that stupid stuff and hardly ever see him be for real. I like how Tonys funny and don't want to see it all go away, but sometimes it seems to go to far and I kinda get tired of it... I would really like to see the more serious side of Tony this season. Hes got to quit hiding at some point and I think theres some things that he needs to say but won't tell anyone... Maybe later he can open up to Ziva, or even Gibbs, but I guess we'll just have see what happens."i agree with tony's ways. like im tired of him always making jokes and hitting on girls.. like always. i want some seriousness from him.. not "work seriousness" (cause that we know he can do and we see) but "tony seriousness". he needs to come out and spill some emotions and feelings... not hide them. people want him to at least let out some things... stop holding back... it's getting old. nevertheless, i love tony and all.. i just want him not to go back to the old tony, and become a new tony. not everything has to change.. but just some of his ways. 1 out of 1 found this valuable. Do you? |
|
Abffchick |
97. RE: Discuss 7.03 The Inside Man HERE!
Oct 8 2009, 8:06 PM EDT
"Maybe she could seek political aslyum, if proven Daddy David set her up to be taken hostage?"That is an interesting idea! I suppose it could work, every year there are thousands of people who are granted at least a green card for that reason to work towards citizenship. 1 out of 1 found this valuable. Do you? |
|
Det.Beckett |
98. RE: Discuss 7.03 The Inside Man HERE!
Oct 8 2009, 8:11 PM EDT
| Post edited: Oct 8 2009, 8:33 PM EDT
"That is an interesting idea! I suppose it could work, every year there are thousands of people who are granted at least a green card for that reason to work towards citizenship."True, but I don't think they can work for a federal agency. Of course, the writers could conveniently let that reality check slide...or since we don't quite know how fast time goes in TVLand, it could be that Ziva has had a green card for about five years, (which would almost equal the number of seasons she has been in) than as mariah pointed out, she could apply for US citizenship, and then it would all be legitimate I think. 1 out of 1 found this valuable. Do you? |
|
Det.Beckett |
99. RE: Discuss 7.03 The Inside Man HERE!
Oct 8 2009, 8:17 PM EDT
"i agree with tony's ways. like im tired of him always making jokes and hitting on girls.. like always. i want some seriousness from him.. not "work seriousness" (cause that we know he can do and we see) but "tony seriousness". he needs to come out and spill some emotions and feelings... not hide them. people want him to at least let out some things... stop holding back... it's getting old. nevertheless, i love tony and all.. i just want him not to go back to the old tony, and become a new tony. not everything has to change.. but just some of his ways. "SB has promised some changes this year for Dinozzo, but what that entails I'm not certain. I agree the character has to change, but I think the part about the jokes and hitting on girls is part of who he is, so it would be unlikely, not to mention unrealistic to expect the writers to just throw that essential part of the character to the wayside. 1 out of 1 found this valuable. Do you? |