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Discussion: TIVA - THE OBSESSIONReported This is a featured thread

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JustJeanette
20. RE: TIVA - THE OBSESSION
Aug 12 2009, 7:41 AM EDT | Post edited: Aug 12 2009, 7:41 AM EDT
"However, it is a pity that shipping on series tends to be stereotyped, as in the case of Tiva or Brennan+Booth on Bones.
Two things concern me about this excessive emphasis: 1 ) scriptwriters start making plots revolve solely and exclusively about this ship, and 2) the aggressiveness of Tiva shippers - and I imagine this is not exclusive to the NCIS series but in other series too where a specific ship dominates above the rest.
I mean why can't people accept that not everyone agrees with a certain kind of ship or simply dislikes it per se - is there no democracy?!"
At least with Booth/Brennan it was pretty obvious from the start though that whole dream episode had me flashing back to Dallas... So much so that I'm not really interested in season 5 of Bones now. I'm a fanfic writer and if I (or others of the cadre) were to have written the last epsiode of Bones as a fic we'd have been laughed out ot the fandom.

I get that people like TIVA; hey, with two very good looking people lik ethat It's not hard to imagine them paired up. The problem is that it's kind of hard to imagine being able to keep TIVA in NCIS without bringing in a lot of decidedly interesting side issues, many of which would tear the team apart completely. Yes, NCIS is not real life but a bit of logic behind any pairing is still necessary if you don't want the whole package to become soap-opera-esque.

Do they tell or do they hide their relationship? If they hide it I can see Gibbs jumping shark over both of them when he eventually finds out... Remember Yankee White, anyone?

What happens when the team is under fire? We have canon evidence that ZIva can not follow stand down orders already (see Cloak); how much worse might it be if she and Tony were lovers?

Why do they get togther? Last I saw Ziva was shoving a gun down Tony's chest; oh it's the magic 'super secret operation' wand of fixing.
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as524
as524
21. RE: TIVA - THE OBSESSION
Aug 12 2009, 11:32 AM EDT | Post edited: Aug 12 2009, 11:32 AM EDT
"Because NCIS without the chemistry and relationships would lose SO many viewers. To be honest the relationships are more discussed than the story lines and the Navy aspect of the show.

In the long run, it makes good telly, therefore makes producers more money. so they're happy writing what the people want, not what is necessarily true to the show."
NCIS has always been character driven - there's no objection there. The objection comes with the idea that the relationship has to turn to romance when it does not. There are so many other fascinating storylines that could be pursued outside of consummating this riduculous pairing. SB claims that the show doesn't follow formula but that's exactly what he's doing by pandering to the pro-tiva crowd. Wish he had the guts to pursue the other storylines.
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as524
as524
22. RE: TIVA - THE OBSESSION
Aug 12 2009, 11:36 AM EDT | Post edited: Aug 12 2009, 11:36 AM EDT
"Thank goodness :-)

However, it is a pity that shipping on series tends to be stereotyped, as in the case of Tiva or Brennan+Booth on Bones.
Two things concern me about this excessive emphasis: 1 ) scriptwriters start making plots revolve solely and exclusively about this ship, and 2) the aggressiveness of Tiva shippers - and I imagine this is not exclusive to the NCIS series but in other series too where a specific ship dominates above the rest.
I mean why can't people accept that not everyone agrees with a certain kind of ship or simply dislikes it per se - is there no democracy?!"
Point # 2 - Bingo on the aggressiveness of the Tiva shippers. It's almost like their ship is an entitlement & it playing out on screen is a right. Thru all my years in a fandom, I've never seen a ship that was quite this...not sure I can come up with a word that fits & won't enflame someone. But I think you know what I mean. Even before Tiva became the rage, there were (and still are) a variety of ships in NCIS. So why can all those in the other ships co-exist so well but not Tiva? Why can all the other ships realize & acknowledge they are based in fanon but not Tiva?
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Mulchahy
Mulchahy
23. RE: TIVA - THE OBSESSION
Aug 12 2009, 12:25 PM EDT | Post edited: Aug 12 2009, 12:25 PM EDT
I really don't want Ziva and Tony to get together. It would ruin the show. they are good partners but nothing more. It would be awkward around Gibbs and McGee and make the viewers feel awkward watching. Under Covers was the awkwardest opening that I had ever seen and I would not want an entire season or episode turn into that. I am a fan of Tony and Jeanne. He should have said yes to her because it was real and maybe they would have gotten back together. I understand that they care for eachother, but they also care about Gibbs, Abby, Ducky, and McGee. I also can't stand the name mash-ups. Tiva, Gabby, McAbby, and any others. It is like Bradgalina. Stupid. Why don't we just call them by their real names or nicknames? No main characters should date eachother. Jimmy and agent Lee was pretty funny and any other relationships that weren't part of the main 6 are ok. Unless Bellisarius can make it un-awkward I will never be a fan. 3  out of 3 found this valuable. Do you?    
Sorgiña
Sorgiña
24. RE: TIVA - THE OBSESSION
Aug 12 2009, 12:30 PM EDT | Post edited: Aug 12 2009, 12:30 PM EDT
"Point # 2 - Bingo on the aggressiveness of the Tiva shippers. It's almost like their ship is an entitlement & it playing out on screen is a right. Thru all my years in a fandom, I've never seen a ship that was quite this...not sure I can come up with a word that fits & won't enflame someone. But I think you know what I mean. Even before Tiva became the rage, there were (and still are) a variety of ships in NCIS. So why can all those in the other ships co-exist so well but not Tiva? Why can all the other ships realize & acknowledge they are based in fanon but not Tiva?"
That's precisely inspired me to write my blog entry. Tiva is the first aggressive shipping I've come across, I can't understand why many Tiva shippers (not all but a large majority) cannot accept that some of us do not like this particular ship and would rather see for example Tabby or Giva or McGiva, etc., etc., it's as if these shippers believed their ship was the be all and end all.
It's also extremely stereotyped with the pretty boy meets pretty girl - hey come on! This is the 21st century ! At least Abby had a non-stereotype romance (the midget scientist), albeit shortlived because the actor in question died, which is a pity because that would have been an interesting romance to explore - at least something a little more unusual
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Tiva4eva.16
Tiva4eva.16
25. RE: TIVA - THE OBSESSION
Aug 12 2009, 5:54 PM EDT | Post edited: Aug 12 2009, 5:54 PM EDT
Everyone is aloud to have there own opinion in these things. Its like attacking someone cause they dont like the same food as you when you know perfectly well that some people might be allergic to it or just hate it (hope that makes sense). I am a Tiva shipper but in no way have i attacked others for not being one. You make your own decisions.
I love the Tiva-Factor but if they got together the show would be wrecked. It will be like friends when Joey and Rachel got together. I think if anything does happen between them it should happen in the last ever season or the last ever episode.
If you disagree with me thats fine.
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JustJeanette
26. RE: TIVA - THE OBSESSION
Aug 12 2009, 6:11 PM EDT | Post edited: Aug 12 2009, 6:11 PM EDT
"Everyone is aloud to have there own opinion in these things. Its like attacking someone cause they dont like the same food as you when you know perfectly well that some people might be allergic to it or just hate it (hope that makes sense). I am a Tiva shipper but in no way have i attacked others for not being one. You make your own decisions.
"
Absolutely correct. I don't see Tiva but that makes it no less valid just because I don't see it. If becomes canon; I'll accept it but it won't stop me shipping in fanon the ships I like. I'm just hoping that whatever happens it is handled well.

Worst case, I can sail down that river in Egypt.

Enjoy your NCIS, enjoy the view that you have of the characters, enjoy the fact that there are so many possibilities and you can always find something in fanon even if canon doesn't alway agree with you.
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LJFan
27. RE: TIVA - THE OBSESSION
Aug 13 2009, 5:41 PM EDT | Post edited: Aug 13 2009, 5:41 PM EDT
I agree it's a charactor driven show always has been...in the past seasons romance was not what gave the show high ratings...I am not a TIVA fan (yes I hate that name too) I believe it would ruin the chemistry and you can talk until your blue but I don't believe it can be done without ruining the team...I like the statement too that just because they are both good looking they have to be paired...why? Gibbs and McGee are good looking men why not pair with them? Why do we need to pair anyone? The minute they start doing that I lose interest in the show because it does change the dynamics....SB doesn't usually follow the normal show formula like everyone else that's why I keep watching...I hope that doesn't change in the future....the uniqueness of the show is what keeps it going strong...also a big thank you to Margy and Sorgina for giving us the space to discuss our favorite show without ugly reprocussion from our difference of opinions...Thanks ladies! 6  out of 6 found this valuable. Do you?    
Sorgiña
Sorgiña
28. RE: TIVA - THE OBSESSION
Aug 13 2009, 5:57 PM EDT | Post edited: Aug 13 2009, 5:57 PM EDT
Now you've got us blushing LJFan.
On a serious notem, I wanted to prove with my entry that we could have a serious discussion about this topic without people trying to kill each other, and it seems we've struck lucky
4  out of 4 found this valuable. Do you?    
Nkisslover494
Nkisslover494
29. RE: TIVA - THE OBSESSION
Aug 15 2009, 1:19 PM EDT | Post edited: Aug 15 2009, 1:19 PM EDT
"Everyone is aloud to have there own opinion in these things. Its like attacking someone cause they dont like the same food as you when you know perfectly well that some people might be allergic to it or just hate it (hope that makes sense). I am a Tiva shipper but in no way have i attacked others for not being one. You make your own decisions.
I love the Tiva-Factor but if they got together the show would be wrecked. It will be like friends when Joey and Rachel got together. I think if anything does happen between them it should happen in the last ever season or the last ever episode.
If you disagree with me thats fine."
I agree. I am a TIVA fan, but I haven't "attacked" anyone for not being one. A lot of people are, but if you're not, its no big deal. I mainly miss them (Tony and Ziva) being friends and I didn't like some of the meanness of everyone in season 7. I would love to see it go back to more like season 5, more chill, fun to watch, and I wouldn't mind the little "moments" that makes it so great, but not taking away from the show. I also agree that if anything major does happen between Tony and Ziva, that it should be the last episode ever, but I might be a little disappointed nothing did....
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Tiva4eva.16
Tiva4eva.16
30. RE: TIVA - THE OBSESSION
Aug 15 2009, 8:42 PM EDT | Post edited: Aug 15 2009, 8:42 PM EDT
maybe in the Last ever season they should do some experimenting but then there is a chance that the show will be remembered as crappy if it doesnt turn out well. I will be upset if nothing happens though but i dont think it should turn into the thing that broke the show and its hard to tell if it would or not. I think i would prefer for the show to go back to Tiva season 5 and if they are going to get together i dont think they should make it to major! Do you find this valuable?    

JosieFB
31. RE: TIVA - THE OBSESSION
Aug 15 2009, 8:57 PM EDT | Post edited: Aug 15 2009, 8:57 PM EDT
"I agree. I am a TIVA fan, but I haven't "attacked" anyone for not being one. A lot of people are, but if you're not, its no big deal. I mainly miss them (Tony and Ziva) being friends and I didn't like some of the meanness of everyone in season 7. I would love to see it go back to more like season 5, more chill, fun to watch, and I wouldn't mind the little "moments" that makes it so great, but not taking away from the show. I also agree that if anything major does happen between Tony and Ziva, that it should be the last episode ever, but I might be a little disappointed nothing did.... "
I am a TIVA fan, but I tend to hang back and not discuss it outside of a TIVA-ship zone. Anti-TIVAs seem to get angry discussing the possibilities. There are more TIVA fans than other ships, so maybe that makes us seem aggressive. Most TIVA fans don't want the relationship to dominate the episodes. The Jeanne-Tony romance took too much screen time. For every show with potential couples, there are pro and anti shippers. I was lurking at the In Plain Sight IMDB board. I've only watched it a few times this season, but I immediately figured out that Marshall has a thing for Mary. I couldn't believe some people on the IMDB couldn't see it. It was the same arguments I see for Tony and Ziva. Close friends, partners, not suited for one another, etc. I'm a romantic at heart, and I want to see how the characters handle romance without bringing other characters to the show that take away from the story lines and main characters. I want Tony and Ziva to get back to the days they teased each other. They still had an unspoken communication in S6, but they stopped the banter about half way through the season. I think it has to do what the op that Ziva's been involved with, and we'll get it back once they repair their relationship. Just give me a hint of a relationship and I'll be happy.
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JustJeanette
32. RE: TIVA - THE OBSESSION
Aug 15 2009, 9:31 PM EDT | Post edited: Aug 15 2009, 9:31 PM EDT
"I am a TIVA fan, but I tend to hang back and not discuss it outside of a TIVA-ship zone. Anti-TIVAs seem to get angry discussing the possibilities. There are more TIVA fans than other ships, so maybe that makes us seem aggressive. "
Actually I'm not sure you can really say there are more TIVA fans. The reason, those of us who ship the non-standard relationship generally try to fly under the radar. Where many of the anti's get frustrated is that there is a cadre of very vocal TIVA fans crying entitlement; we are entitled to TIVA happening on screen!!! I've asked thequestion before and yet to get an answer, why are you entitled to your ship but I'm not entitled to mine?

Also, another interesting point, there have been some particularly vitrioic posts made by some who ship TIVA on various public boards; the anti's then get lambasted but I rarely see any pro-TIVA people suggesting that these extreme fans might be better served pulling their heads in. I can think of a couple of people who, if they were espousing my favorite FANON ships, that I'd be asking to go away because I wouldn't want to be associated with people like that. If you say nothing you are in fact supporting their point of veiw and I've yet to see an anti call a pro-TIVA person a perverted pediophile. SO maybe some of the pro-TIVA people need to 'polie' their own because if we make any comments about the tone used by some individuals we just get shot down as those horrid anti's who are taking over the boards.

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NCIS_rules
NCIS_rules
33. RE: TIVA - THE OBSESSION
Aug 15 2009, 9:40 PM EDT | Post edited: Aug 15 2009, 9:40 PM EDT
"Oki i'll start :)

Every TV show (normally) has to have a ship that the majoirity loves, otherwise it wouldn't work, whether they have been together, might be or are.
Take the mentalist for example you have Van Pelt/Rigsby, then Lisbon/Jane as well.
Numb3rs you have Don/Robin
I could go on :D

Of all the ships on NCIS; Tate, Tiva, McAbby, Jibbs whatever you support I think it is quite obvious the most wanted one is Tiva (with McAbby after). They are paired because immediately when they were introduced they flirted, Tony had recently seen Kate die right next to him and was protective of her but not the way he is with Ziva. ESPECIALLY after the Season 6 finale (sorry if you haven't seen this :S) before he killed Michael, Michael asked if Tony was coming over to comfort Ziva now he had left. This may have been partially true, it's not like McGee or Gibbs was going round to check on her.
I understand they can't be making out in the middle of the office, but at the very end (*cries at thought*) would it hurt for them to end up together?
Which ship is your fav sorgina?"
there is always a big risk in a crime show, with two of the main investigators hooking up, as long as they don't hook up, people will be following it to see when it is going to happen, once they do, you lose that portion of audience's loyalty, maybe they will still watch, but they may not feel like they have to watch if something else is on, or something else is going on. NCIS was the number 5 show last season, I am not sure they want to mess with the winning formula. Besides is Tony going to treat Ziva the same way he treated Ms Jeanne Benoit? Because they can't be in a relationship, their scenes when they are at work would become awkward and cheesy. If they do hook up, I think it would be Ziva to be the one to end it, because I am not sure how they would write Ziva in love with Tony, and still make her a bad ass?
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AbbyRoxMyCombatBoots
AbbyRoxMyCombatBoots
34. RE: TIVA - THE OBSESSION
Aug 17 2009, 6:05 PM EDT | Post edited: Aug 17 2009, 6:05 PM EDT
"I'm well aware there will be those of you out there who disagree terribly with what I've just said, however, I feel I'm as entitled as the next to express my opinion regarding this subject.

However, feel free to try and convert me into a TIVA shipper - I challenge you!"
You rock!!! :D

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ncisluver33
ncisluver33
35. RE: TIVA - THE OBSESSION
Aug 17 2009, 6:35 PM EDT | Post edited: Aug 17 2009, 6:35 PM EDT
i think that tiva is cute and they could work out and i agree with you but when i watch ncis i dont really think all about the couples and pairing but at the end of season 6 how could u not notice tiva.lol they are my fav couple on there i also have friends that like mcabby the best and jibbs so im not that opionated. i love the show it is my fav on tv but mainly cause its funny and it can mix crime. but the only thing that is keeping me from completly going with any couple ship is that it is just tv and if they did get anyone together on there im really worried that the shows ratings would drop
so i hope u like my comment
---have a great day
and good for u for speeking ur mind
------ncisluver33 :)
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NCIS_rules
NCIS_rules
36. RE: TIVA - THE OBSESSION
Aug 17 2009, 8:19 PM EDT | Post edited: Aug 17 2009, 8:19 PM EDT
"i think that tiva is cute and they could work out and i agree with you but when i watch ncis i dont really think all about the couples and pairing but at the end of season 6 how could u not notice tiva.lol they are my fav couple on there i also have friends that like mcabby the best and jibbs so im not that opionated. i love the show it is my fav on tv but mainly cause its funny and it can mix crime. but the only thing that is keeping me from completly going with any couple ship is that it is just tv and if they did get anyone together on there im really worried that the shows ratings would drop
so i hope u like my comment
---have a great day
and good for u for speeking ur mind
------ncisluver33 :)"
I am sure the rating would drop if they had them in the same kind of relationship, as they had with Tony and Jeanne, because do we really want to see Tony and Ziva going out to dinner? Part of the fun of it is that half the time they are at each others throats, and the other half, they obsess over each other, but are afraid to say anything. Once they hook up, that is all gone. It is like that show Moonlighting, with Bruce Willis and Cybill Shepherd, where they were always on the brink of something, but always kept you wanting just a little bit more, once they hook up, it tends to kill the show.
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Probie007
Probie007
37. RE: TIVA - THE OBSESSION
Aug 17 2009, 9:50 PM EDT | Post edited: Aug 17 2009, 9:54 PM EDT
"I am sure the rating would drop if they had them in the same kind of relationship, as they had with Tony and Jeanne, because do we really want to see Tony and Ziva going out to dinner? Part of the fun of it is that half the time they are at each others throats, and the other half, they obsess over each other, but are afraid to say anything. Once they hook up, that is all gone. It is like that show Moonlighting, with Bruce Willis and Cybill Shepherd, where they were always on the brink of something, but always kept you wanting just a little bit more, once they hook up, it tends to kill the show."
I agree....seasons 4 and 5 were fun because of the way they kept going at each other......its more fun to watch that and them flirting with others....the chemistry between them is what adds to the team dynamics......if I want to watch romance I'd watch another serial and not NCIS. I'd rather have Gibbs hook up with someone else like Cnt. Mann...McGee and Abby are ok because Abby makes it a point to keep the relation casual - thats just me......
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NCIS_rules
NCIS_rules
38. RE: TIVA - THE OBSESSION
Aug 20 2009, 8:21 PM EDT | Post edited: Aug 20 2009, 8:21 PM EDT
Yeah, this is not Grey's Anatomy or Desperate Housewives, it is okay if they have any of the characters hook up, but to have them in an actual relationship, turns the show from NCIS, to NCIS: forbidden love. Besides remember Gibbs rule #12: Never date a co-worker. Although Abby+McGee could work because they work in different departmants, and they wouldn't have to devote that much time to it. But if they have Tony-Ziva in a relationship, then a good chunk of the show becomes about that, and that is not why I have become a loyal follower. 4  out of 4 found this valuable. Do you?    
Probie007
Probie007
39. RE: TIVA - THE OBSESSION
Aug 23 2009, 12:05 PM EDT | Post edited: Aug 23 2009, 12:06 PM EDT
For all TIVA fans, I found this great video on youtube - if you havent already seen it that is :)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vs34EAwsg2k&feature=related
Its not an official trailer, just fan made but aweome editing and music :)
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