NCIS MODERATORS' BLOG 115

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EVOLUTION OF ZIVA DAVID REVISITED

9th September 2010

A lot of my blogs this week have involved Ziva, so it seems fitting that this weeks recap blog should also be on the subject of Ziva David.

I got some good feedback on my original blog on the subject of the evolution of Ziva.

Jenny's introduction of Ziva into the team at the start of season 3 was the point that most people seized on. Most correspondents were as shocked as I was at Jenny's callousness of introducing the sister of Kate's murderer as Kate's replacement. About the politest thing you could say about Jenny's act was that she must have learned her people skills from Gibbs as well as her skills as an agent!

Most people are now very keen to see what will happen to Ziva in season 8 and beyond. Det.Beckett put it best when he said: "I'm curious as to what the writers are going to do with the character now that she's become an American, since several of the things she's known for come from a fish-out-of-water/Mossad perspective. She said an idiom correctly in the finale, she isn't as keen on using violence, and hopefully for her sake the family troubles are behind her."

Thanks to everyone who took part in the discussions.

LAST UPDATE ON 10th September 2010, 6.20AM AEST
SUBMITTED BY MargyW

DOPPELGANGER

8th September 2010

In this season 2 episode a petty officer's possible murder looks like a hoax - until the petty officer is found dead.

This is the episode with the police team of exact duplicates of our NCIS team. A cute joke which is flogged to death a bit, unfortunately. I liked the combination of Gibbs and Chaney. Especially them drinking coffee in unison...it looked like a variation on synchronized swimming.

Kate and Abby discussing female super heroes in the lab much to Gibbs' annoyance made for a good scene. Followed by Gibbs pacing up and down and constantly peering over McGee and Abby's shoulders. Hard to watch now, because it is very un-Gibbslike behavior.

Gibbs interviewing the computer geek at Bethesda with McGee translating was rather funny. McGee an Abby trying to one-up each other with "worst jobs I have ever had" was also very good.

I think my problem with "Doppelganger" is Gibbs attraction to Karen Wilkerson. I'm afraid that watching Gibbs' hormones go into overdrive tends to make me wince. Goofy Gibbs is not a pretty sight.

There was also a lot of waffling in this episode and I felt that Gibbs rushing Karen Wilkerson into his basement seemed horribly contrived by the writers. By season 2 it had been well established that Gibbs' basement is his private space. Taking Karen down there to basically seduce her just seemed wrong on so many levels.

"Doppelganger" did have a few good lines.

Monteleone: Your eyes are the same color as my porsche.

Tony: I'd rather be homeless than be you, Probie.

McGee: You mean I'm going to interview them?
Gibbs: No. I'll interview. You translate.

Abby: Is it possible to die of boredom?

Gibbs: I'm still building her.
Karen: Which marina?
Gibbs: My basement.

Karen: Are you familiar with this new advance in technology called power tools?

Gibbs: McGee. This had better be the most important phone call you ever made.

LAST UPDATE ON 9th September 2010, 6.28AM AEST
SUBMITTED BY MargyW

GIBBS AND ZIVA

7th September 2010

This is one of the more interesting relationships in NCIS. Their relationship begins when Ziva kills her half brother to save Gibbs' life in "Kill Ari Part 2". This not withstanding, Gibbs is not happy when Jenny makes Ziva a member of his team. Not for his own sake, as he tells Ziva that he trusts her. But for the sake of Tim and Tony. Gibbs knows the truth (as it is known then), the boys do not.

Gibbs is hard on Ziva. Harder than he was on McGee when he joined the team. And definitely harder than he was on Kate. But Gibbs knows that Ziva can take it, and he needs to see if Ziva will slot comfortably into the team.

At the beginning a season 4, framed for murder, it is Gibbs in Mexico that Ziva turns to for help. Gibbs, being the man he is, eventually comes to her aid. It is obvious at this point, that Ziva is seeing Gibbs as a father figure. In her time of need, it isn't her biological father she calls for assistance, it is the man who has become her spiritual father, if you like. Her mentor. Her friend.

The strength of the relationship doesn't become apparent again until the beginning of season 6. Whilst talking on the phone with Gibbs in Eli David's office, Ziva takes the call off speaker to render it as private as possible. Much to Eli's annoyance. She misses Gibbs and lets me know. Ziva is not a touchy-feely person, but hugs Gibbs with some enthusiasm when she returns to NCIS.

In "Aliyah" Ziva makes the mistake of forcing Gibbs to chose between her and Tony. Gibbs refuses to make the choice and walks away leaving Ziva standing at the airfield in Tel Aviv. Yet Gibbs refuses to chose a replacement for the team. Hoping that Ziva will change her mind and come home. When Vance tells Gibbs that Ziva had been sent to take out Ari and win Gibbs trust, Gibbs is shocked. But when they discover Ziva is held captive, Gibbs and his team, move heaven and earth to get her home. Gibbs going back to his old occupation as sniper to take out the lead terrorist, before being helicoptered in to the terrorist base to extract Tony, McGee and Ziva.

Like all good father/daughter relationships, Gibbs gives Ziva a chance to explain her side of the story. She prefaces her explanation with the words "My own father is dead to me, and the closest thing I have to a father is accusing me." This casts in solid steel the relationship between the two.

Due to the intervention of Margaret Allison Hart, Gibbs didn't make it to Ziva's citizenship ceremony. It will be interesting to see how Ziva reacts to that at the beginning of season 8. Whatever happens, I know that the relationship between Gibbs and Ziva will only grow stronger as the series progresses.

LAST UPDATE ON 8th September 2010, 6.43AM AEST
SUBMITTED BY MargyW

KAI & ZIVA - TWO SIDES OF THE SAME COIN?

6th September 2010

I watched season 7's "End Game" last night and found myself wondering about the similarities and differences between Lee Won Kai and Ziva David.

Tony notices the similarities between the two, even though the comparison annoys Ziva. Some times Tony DiNozzo has more depth and farsightedness than we give him credit for. The similarities are there. Both are beautiful women, both are highly trained assassins, both were employed by their governments to kill. But to me, the similarities end there. They become opposites from this point onwards.

Ziva grew up in a reasonably stable family environment. Kai grew up in an orphanage. Ziva had several siblings. Kai had none. Ziva as a Mossad agent operated as part of a team. Kai always worked alone. Can you see the pattern here? Alone. Kai was always alone. The only sense of contact Kai had was with Leon Vance, but that is a subject for another blog.

I could add another rebuttal....Ziva is a good guy; Kai a bad one. But I don't think that is strictly true. Both are what their circumstances and their training made them. Kai has no qualms about killing, yet she does not kill the NCIS agents at Vance's home. She tranquillizes them. Kai also saves McGee's life. Killing the assassin Amanda, who was about to kill Tim. Vance: You saved one of my agents. Kai: He didn't deserve to die. The girl did.

There is one more similarity I would like to point out. Both Ziva and Kai were looking to change their lives for the better. For Ziva, the path to this was to become an American citizen and a NCIS agent. For Kai, the only change she could see for herself was the final change of this life - death. A change which Jackie Vance supplied.

The last words of "End Game" say it all. "Every man is born as many men and dies as a single one". Every woman too.

LAST UPDATE ON 7th September 2010, 6.33AM AEST
SUBMITTED BY MargyW

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MargyW

Gibbs and Ziva (page: 1 2)

Dec 30 2011, 3:35 PM EST by BiankaSK95

Thread started: Sep 7 2010, 4:46 PM EDT Watch

My blog entry for today:

http://www.ncisfanwiki.com/page/NCIS+MODERATORS%27+BLOG+115

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Doppelganger - Blog Entry

Sep 13 2010, 7:10 PM EDT by AZNCISfan

Thread started: Sep 8 2010, 4:30 PM EDT Watch

My blog entry for today:

http://www.ncisfanwiki.com/page/NCIS+MODERATORS%27+BLOG+115

I am interested to hear what you think.

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Kai and Ziva - Two Sides of the Same Coin?

Sep 9 2010, 11:01 AM EDT by Irishelf

Thread started: Sep 6 2010, 4:34 PM EDT Watch

My blog entry for today:

http://www.ncisfanwiki.com/page/NCIS+MODERATORS%27+BLOG+115

Any feedback/discussion would be great.

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RE: Kai and Ziva - Two Sides of the Same Coin?
By: Irishelf, Sep 9 2010, 11:01 AM EDT

"Interesting topic. If you compare the lives of Ziva and Kai, I think the most important thing is that Ziva grew up in a reasonably family. That way she got what E. H. Erikson calls a basic sense of trust. Though she had to struggle hard - as we saw in season 6 - she finally found her own way to live. Kai wasn't that lucky. Brought up in an orphanage she didn't know where she belonged to neither who to trust. As you already mentioned, Margy, Leon was for her the only steady, regular, reliable thing.
It's very sad and a real tragedy. Given other circumstances she would have become a complete other woman. She is a fighter and fighting hard to change only killing the baddies. I'm not sure what would have happened if Jackie hadn't shot her.
"

Ziva grew up in a reasonable family?! I think not! She was brainwashed just as much as Kai. Eli raised her to be an assassin (he admitted as much in Last Man standing) and Ari as a mole in Hamas. She has obvious trust issues which came to a head in Aliyah. I got the distinct impression that any friends Ziva had needed to have Daddy's approval (you can tell Eli was NOT happy with Tony and ziva's friendship). And she certainly did not have much freedom-even when she was away from Daddy he found ways to control and manipulate her (having her spied on, sending Rivkin, etc.). She didn't really start questioning her upbringing until she was with Gibbs (which is why Eli has been trying so hard to make Gibbs not trust her-he realizes if he can get Ziva away from Gibbs it will be easier for him to manipulate her). And even though Ziva had a family, I get the impression that Eli doesn't love her-she is just a tool for him.

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NCIS MODERATORS' BLOG FROM S9 ONWARDS	NCIS SEASON 9 FINALE	jimmy Palmer
Why I like Ziva	What?	What is that makes people not like Ziva?
Brilliant!!!!	Please continue	NCIS Mavericks Page 21
NCIS Mavericks Page 22	Please finish the stories that are posted.	NCIS Mavericks interesting idea of back up team training as Gibbs 2

NCIS MODERATORS' BLOG 115

EVOLUTION OF ZIVA DAVID REVISITED

DOPPELGANGER

GIBBS AND ZIVA

KAI & ZIVA - TWO SIDES OF THE SAME COIN?

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