MargyW
May 19 2008, 5:52 PM EDT
Ziva is a more believable character than Kate. In reality, someone like Kate would never have got into the Secret Service or NCIS. She was gullible, trusting, prone to relying on her emotions, not her intellect. Ziva, on the other hand, is an excellent agent. Level headed and calm.

HobbitKiller
May 19 2008, 7:24 PM EDT
Ziva has emotions. She just doesn't always go, "Hay look, I'm feeling this emotion right now!" If you look in her eyes sometimes, there is really pure emotion there. Also, Ziva can kick behind a lot better than Kate and that's always fun.

abbyrulz
May 20 2008, 7:07 PM EDT

"Ziva has emotions. She just doesn't always go, "Hay look, I'm feeling this emotion right now!" If you look in her eyes sometimes, there is really pure emotion there. Also, Ziva can kick behind a lot better than Kate and that's always fun."

that is so true as specially when tony was calling jeanne she had an ovious sad emotion on her face and in her eyes

phoobaby
May 22 2008, 10:15 AM EDT
Ziva has emotions, if you ask me her and kate are a lot a like when it came to showing there emotions.

NCISlover161
May 22 2008, 12:20 PM EDT
Ziva does show her feelings, just in a not very obvious way! But that is what makes her such a good agent! in mossad if they showed every emotion they had they would't be any use at all! Ziva has just learnt to hide her emotions on the outside!

Hatman34
May 22 2008, 4:19 PM EDT
I don't want her to have emotions and Margy how is Kate gullible only once with the explotions and who did not belive her cmon

Hatman34
May 22 2008, 4:20 PM EDT
also Ziva cannot investegate, even McGee is better

HobbitKiller
May 22 2008, 5:55 PM EDT
McGee was trained as an investigator, so he should be better at it. Ziva is just fine at investigating, but her real talents are in kicking butt. I don't think Kate was all that great at investigating either. That was usually Tony and Gibbs's arena.

love_coffee
May 23 2008, 7:54 AM EDT
Kate may have solved cases twice as well as Ziva but to people Ziva has more character than kate.

howdy25
May 23 2008, 5:39 PM EDT
i agree with love_coffee. i like both kate and ziva. they are different people with different skills and should not be compared to each other while looking at only one skill. kate was good at investigating and was smart and tough. ziva is not as good as kate at investigating, but she is still learning. technically, she is still the probie, so she should not be compared to kate who had more experience with the legal system. in mossad, not showing emotion was a strength. ziva's training taught her how to hide her thoughts from the enemy. ziva and kate had the same amount of emotion, ziva just doesn't show it as much.

love_coffee
May 23 2008, 7:31 PM EDT
Well i thank you for being on the same page. Tony though has done nothing but talk that paper work according to him talks for its self.

howdy25
May 23 2008, 7:57 PM EDT
you know his motto "work smarter not harder" i wish i knew how to do everything without doing anything at all. lucky duck.

love_coffee
May 23 2008, 8:29 PM EDT
Well maybe you'll get your chance. Though if I could be smarter I bet it would work for me.

Hatman34
May 24 2008, 7:25 AM EDT
but Kate was a better investegater and Gibbs kicks butt so who needs Ziva(I still like Ziva but I think Kate is better)

HobbitKiller
May 24 2008, 9:40 AM EDT
Gibbs, though he is awesome, can't do everything that Ziva can do. What I didn't like about Kate (who I did like) was her attitude which was part of the first two season's flat character models. Ziva doesn't always have to point out that she's better at fighting than guys or that she's a girl in an all guys club, but Kate was always sniping at Tony about women being better than men. Now don't get me wrong, feminism is totally cool with me, but after like the thirtieth time it gets a little old.

I think she suffered because she came before the show decided to explore characters other than Gibbs more which happened in the third season. Before then, Tony was just a skirt chasing womanizer, McGee was just a stuttering rookie, and Kate was the woman in a man's world.

howdy25
May 24 2008, 10:47 AM EDT
agreed. ziva really surprised tony. after kate, he wasn't expecting a woman who could joke about the same things as him. ziva is pretty much the only one who can make tony speachless. ziva is also kind to mcgee when he's hurt.

love_coffee
May 24 2008, 3:29 PM EDT
Ziva knows more on all of the terrorism and Mussad ways. Kate didn't know any of it. Gibbs always kicks butt so there's nothing to worry about there. What made Kate a better investigator?

Hatman34
May 25 2008, 5:45 PM EDT
Kate could tell when someone was lying and Gibbs was impressed with her investigative skills. Ziva time and time again screws up and I like Ziva better when she is in the no emotion mode she is terrible with emotions. All of her emotions are sad and helpless there is no happiness or anger. Also Kate had to stress that she thought women were better because Tony kept argueing and treating women as objects which pissed her off. Tony had a serious girlfrfiend which means Ziva thinks that he thinks woman are people not Objects.

That brings me to my second point Kate knows alot of people/connections Ziva also does... in Isreal. Kate has them here in the Secret Service. So Ziva could get them into Isreal and such with MOSSAD and Ziva lost most connections when Ari died she is upset with her father and there for with MOSSAD. Kate knew Ari and how he reacts just like Ziva. Find someone who is border line and can write fanfics and they can write a contest

HobbitKiller
May 26 2008, 8:25 PM EDT
Have we been watching the same show? Ziva has tons of connections everywhere from other intelligence agencies and agencies like the CIA. Her contacts solved a lot more cases than Kate's. Kate only had contacts in the secret service which weren't much good for crime investigation unless they had to track down counterfeit money.

Also, Ziva can totally tell when someone's lying. She guesses correctly all the time. Plus, she's got her Ziva sense going on where she just intuitively knows something's not right. How many times did Kate throw her support behind a killer as being innocent? A lot.

Ziva never gets angry? You're kidding right? How about the guy who framed Tony that she slammed against the wall, or the guy from "Jeopardy" that she punched in the jugular, or they guy she was yelling at in "Shalom" etc. etc. As for happiness, Ziva's been happy and laughing more than once on the show.

Tony didn't have a girlfriend until the fourth season, he was still a womanizer in the third season, though he did have other attributes, when Ziva showed up. Ziva just proved her superiority by being superior.





#1hotchfan
May 26 2008, 10:11 PM EDT

"Gibbs, though he is awesome, can't do everything that Ziva can do. What I didn't like about Kate (who I did like) was her attitude which was part of the first two season's flat character models. Ziva doesn't always have to point out that she's better at fighting than guys or that she's a girl in an all guys club, but Kate was always sniping at Tony about women being better than men. Now don't get me wrong, feminism is totally cool with me, but after like the thirtieth time it gets a little old.

I think she suffered because she came before the show decided to explore characters other than Gibbs more which happened in the third season. Before then, Tony was just a skirt chasing womanizer, McGee was just a stuttering rookie, and Kate was the woman in a man's world. "

Katie also was a woman who had to prove herself. In the Secret Service and on NCIS. Maybe it wasn't an attitude she had so much as she had gotten so used to having to be that way as she was a woman.

HobbitKiller
May 27 2008, 8:22 AM EDT
I don't have a problem with Kate proving herself or correcting guys if they say women are inferior. It was just that she was saying things like that all the time, often unprovoked. I think I just got a little tired of having her constantly act like that. I think they wasted time on the "men are from mars" part of the first and second season and not enough time further developing the character.

NCISlover161
May 27 2008, 8:36 AM EDT

"Kate may have solved cases twice as well as Ziva but to people Ziva has more character than kate."

exactly, the whole point of the show is too add character! why hav a load of boring agents that were all the same ! no-one would watch it! And in a way i think sasha alexander totally ruined Kate's character by leaving! I know she has her reasons but she totally put a downer on kate. (I totally understand why she left and everything...don't get me wrong!)

#1hotchfan
May 27 2008, 1:12 PM EDT
Also, there really IS no comparison. Both women were raised in 2 different countries, brought up 2 different ways. Each of them brought something unique to the team and fit in in their own way. Those who watched Seasons 1 & 2, liked and enjoyed Kate. I do miss the Kate character, but I enjoy Ziva just as much. She brings a different personality to the team and I would miss her muddle English! I would love to see the 2 women interact, but Kate's gone and the actress has moved on as she wanted to.

Hatman34
May 30 2008, 6:40 AM EDT

"Also, there really IS no comparison. Both women were raised in 2 different countries, brought up 2 different ways. Each of them brought something unique to the team and fit in in their own way. Those who watched Seasons 1 & 2, liked and enjoyed Kate. I do miss the Kate character, but I enjoy Ziva just as much. She brings a different personality to the team and I would miss her muddle English! I would love to see the 2 women interact, but Kate's gone and the actress has moved on as she wanted to. "

correct. but everyone if sasha had stayed the charactor would grow correct? Also Ziva does not do any thing about the liars and i think recoil was terrible. is ANYBODY on MY side c'mon

HobbitKiller
May 30 2008, 9:05 AM EDT
What do you mean Ziva doesn't do anything about the liars? Now I'm just confused about what exactly you're referencing, because my recollection is that she usually sticks her gun in their face or beats the crap out of them.

And yeah, Kate's character would have grown if she'd been on the show longer, but she wasn't and it didn't, so you can't really say you like her character if it doesn't exist except in your imagination of what could have been. Unfortunately, the writers took their sweet time developing her into something more. Ziva's only been on one more season than Kate and she's infinitely more developed. Even in the first season with Ziva we saw more layers to her than we'd seen with Kate.


Hatman34
May 31 2008, 7:34 AM EDT
in which eposode

Scorpio-lady
May 31 2008, 9:32 AM EDT
I just have to say that I was so sad when Kate was killed, and that it did take me a small amount of time to accept Ziva. However, I have always seen these two characters as being totally different, and have been thankful for this, as I'm not hindered by comparing them to one another. In the past two seasons I have closely watched Ziva's inner turmoil concerning her many emotions, and how she is working so hard to become more able to display them openly. As the Mossad liaison officer, I feel that she has proven her worth to the team, and has unquestionably become a very good field agent in the process. I do see Ziva's character as being more carefully developed than Kate's was, and am quite happy with who she has become, and is still becoming.

HobbitKiller
May 31 2008, 10:05 AM EDT

"in which eposode"

How about the cabby from "Trojan Horse"? Last time I checked she asked for permission to shoot him in that special place. How about the dude from "Corporal Punishment"? He paid the price for lying to Ziva. She kicked the guy from "Boxed In" who they thought was on their side in the special place. The captain from the ship Gibbs was blown up on? How about her first episode as a team member? I believe someone got a knife to the heart who had been leading the team on. And, on a more serious note, she killed Ari after he had been deceiving her and the entire intelligence community.

Ziva really doesn't screw up that much. She gets raw deals and such, but so does everyone on the team. She disarms bombs and translates and knows her way around other peoples cultures. She can bring in a different perspective than a character born and raised in the US.

dani_g
May 31 2008, 11:00 AM EDT

"but everyone if sasha had stayed the charactor would grow correct? "

I hated how the show dealt with Kate in season 2, so in a way I am sort of glad she got killed off, before the powers that be could make things go even further down hill . They made her seem stupid and juvenile and if you watch season 1, it is clear that she is not that type of person at all.

I'm glad they replaced Kate with Ziva. I also had my reservations a new main female coming in in season 3 but I think it was well done. There is nothing in Ziva that reminds us of Kate and she's not just someone drafted in so they can have a female agent. I don't know how much of it was the writers or Sasha not fitting with the other actors but Ziva is much more at home in the group and therefor more believable as a character I think Ziva fits better to Tony than any other woman-mostly because she matches Tony's spirit and his weird dirty humor.

Season 1 Kate had so much potential.-she is totally diferent in S2.in my mind, they really screwed up when it came to developing her character and moving her /forwards/ not backwards.

Hatman34
Jun 7 2008, 3:51 PM EDT
i meant about Kate

Hatman34
Jun 7 2008, 3:52 PM EDT

"Ziva is a more believable character than Kate. In reality, someone like Kate would never have got into the Secret Service or NCIS. She was gullible, trusting, prone to relying on her emotions, not her intellect. Ziva, on the other hand, is an excellent agent. Level headed and calm."

Ziva is not that belive able

dani_g
Jun 7 2008, 4:09 PM EDT

"i meant about Kate"

I know-that's why i posted my reply about about the way her character was written bad in S2.:)

Cathain
Jun 7 2008, 4:21 PM EDT
I watched NCIS right from the beginning, cause I`m a fan of J.A.G. and I was really shocked, whe Kate was shot, but then there came Ziva and now I think, Kate was rather boring. I`m so glad, they brought Ziva in.

Ziva has expierence as an agent, she is well trained, she has control of her emotions and she is able to retort to Tony without playing the "women are better as men" card. Then she works great in the team - "Under Cover" would have never worked with Kate.

I like Kate, but having Ziva in the show is much more fun.

HobbitKiller
Jun 7 2008, 8:26 PM EDT
Okay, I think people need to quote if they are directly asking a question about a particular post. Otherwise most people assume you're talking about the post right above yours.

Anyway, I actually don't think Kate was unbelievable. That was kind-of my problem with her. She was too ordinary. Ziva is a unique and awesome character, and therefore, in my opinion, makes better television. I agree with Cathain. Having Ziva in the show is a lot more fun.

zivadavid
Jun 8 2008, 8:15 AM EDT

"Okay, I think people need to quote if they are directly asking a question about a particular post. Otherwise most people assume you're talking about the post right above yours.

Anyway, I actually don't think Kate was unbelievable. That was kind-of my problem with her. She was too ordinary. Ziva is a unique and awesome character, and therefore, in my opinion, makes better television. I agree with Cathain. Having Ziva in the show is a lot more fun."

i thought that to

Hatman34
Jun 9 2008, 6:18 PM EDT
Margy made the point that Kate was not belivable and she could not get in to the Secret Service

zivadavid
Jun 10 2008, 10:26 AM EDT

"Margy made the point that Kate was not belivable and she could not get in to the Secret Service"

i think she could hav done as she was very protective

NCISlover161
Jun 10 2008, 12:20 PM EDT
Kate always struck me as a more formal FBI sorta agent? Just saying how she was never really wear slightly more casual stuff like ziva in her cargo pants. Kate was always quite dressed up. ( I know i should't really judge people on how they dress..etc) Anyone else think the same? (no offence meant to the FBI OR kate) :D

Hatman34
Jun 10 2008, 6:21 PM EDT
she was in the secret service so for her that would have been casual

MargyW
Jun 10 2008, 6:26 PM EDT

"Margy made the point that Kate was not belivable and she could not get in to the Secret Service"

Caitlin would not have got into the secret service. She was gullible. Believed what she was told. She did not have the necessary native suspicion to be a good secret service agent. A good secret service agent would never have been sucked in by someone the way Kate was with the girl buried alive... and certainly wouldn't have not killed Ari because of his eyes. Those two things alone show she was unsuitable and quite possibly incompetent.

#1hotchfan
Jun 10 2008, 8:43 PM EDT

"I watched NCIS right from the beginning, cause I`m a fan of J.A.G. and I was really shocked, whe Kate was shot, but then there came Ziva and now I think, Kate was rather boring. I`m so glad, they brought Ziva in.

Ziva has expierence as an agent, she is well trained, she has control of her emotions and she is able to retort to Tony without playing the "women are better as men" card. Then she works great in the team - "Under Cover" would have never worked with Kate.

I like Kate, but having Ziva in the show is much more fun. "

AMEN! I liked Kate. But I do believe it's more "fun" and there is more chemistry with Ziva and the rest of the characters as well. Only in one of the final episodes this season did we actually see Ziva deal with her emotions (tired at the moment, can't remember - Recoil???). Otherwise she kept them in check.

While I could see yes, Kate would have grown, I don't think we'd get half the humor had she stayed that we have now with Ziva. Seriously, think of her muddled English.... that in itself is a riot!

dragonwind
Jun 13 2008, 9:59 AM EDT
Although I loved Kate when she was in the series I have to disagree with Hatman, Ziva is not unemotional she is hesitant to get close to anyone because of her Massad training. I am sure that she has had friends die and she is just very cautous about getting close. I did notice in a few episodes that she was VERY worried about Tony....noticing he was wearing a hospital wrist band, being gone for long times with no excuse, she is beginning to think of the team as a family when she gets told that her position is no longer there and she must return home.
I know that is crushing her heart but she is so tough and trained that she won't show it........yet

zivadavid
Jun 13 2008, 10:22 AM EDT

"Although I loved Kate when she was in the series I have to disagree with Hatman, Ziva is not unemotional she is hesitant to get close to anyone because of her Massad training. I am sure that she has had friends die and she is just very cautous about getting close. I did notice in a few episodes that she was VERY worried about Tony....noticing he was wearing a hospital wrist band, being gone for long times with no excuse, she is beginning to think of the team as a family when she gets told that her position is no longer there and she must return home.
I know that is crushing her heart but she is so tough and trained that she won't show it........yet"

i think that there will be a reason why she does not go back.i didnt think she showed much emotion in season 4 but i dont know about season 5 as i hav not seen it yet

Hatman34
Jun 13 2008, 5:50 PM EDT

"Although I loved Kate when she was in the series I have to disagree with Hatman, Ziva is not unemotional she is hesitant to get close to anyone because of her Massad training. I am sure that she has had friends die and she is just very cautous about getting close. I did notice in a few episodes that she was VERY worried about Tony....noticing he was wearing a hospital wrist band, being gone for long times with no excuse, she is beginning to think of the team as a family when she gets told that her position is no longer there and she must return home.
I know that is crushing her heart but she is so tough and trained that she won't show it........yet"

i dont want her to have emotions i never said she has no emotions

HobbitKiller
Jun 14 2008, 9:50 AM EDT
Why do you want her to be a robot? That's boring and is often a result of bad acting and bad writing. The whole point of having a television series is being able to see a little more of the characters in every episode. If you want a crime procedural that doesn't explore depth in their characters, I'd recommend you stick to watching Law and Order.

To zivadavid, I have to say I disagree with you about the fourth season. The fourth season showed us a very emotional Ziva. She cried in the first episode, was worried about Tony for half the season, and jealous of Jeanne for the other half, fell in love with Roy (the orange beanie) and ended up getting drunk with Ducky because Tony didn't go to the bar with the team.

Hatman34
Jun 14 2008, 9:56 AM EDT

"Why do you want her to be a robot? That's boring and is often a result of bad acting and bad writing. The whole point of having a television series is being able to see a little more of the characters in every episode. If you want a crime procedural that doesn't explore depth in their characters, I'd recommend you stick to watching Law and Order.

To zivadavid, I have to say I disagree with you about the fourth season. The fourth season showed us a very emotional Ziva. She cried in the first episode, was worried about Tony for half the season, and jealous of Jeanne for the other half, fell in love with Roy (the orange beanie) and ended up getting drunk with Ducky because Tony didn't go to the bar with the team."

because she is awesome with no emotions my least favorite eposodes are with Ziva's emotions, and i think season four was not the best with Jeanne, but the beginning was good and i like Shalom

zivadavid
Jun 14 2008, 10:09 AM EDT

"because she is awesome with no emotions my least favorite eposodes are with Ziva's emotions, and i think season four was not the best with Jeanne, but the beginning was good and i like Shalom"

i have not seen shalom yet

NCISlover161
Jun 14 2008, 1:29 PM EDT

"i have not seen shalom yet"

shalom is a great episode...it gives us a great insider to ziva's life..and what was she doing with tony at her house!

Hatman34
Jun 15 2008, 4:19 PM EDT
what was she

Sorgiña
Jun 15 2008, 4:46 PM EDT

"what was she"

That's the jackpot question - nobody knows, so we're all on tenterhooks


FeministaK
Jun 17 2008, 10:08 AM EDT
Hatman if you hate Ziva so much why do you watch the show? Ziva's character brings so much to the show that Kate, who was an idiot never could. I won't own seasons 1 and 2 because Kate is in them.
No offense, but you need to accept the fact that people really like Ziva and move on. I say this respectfully, but stop complaining!

dragonwind
Jun 17 2008, 10:42 AM EDT
Kate was NOT an idiot.....she brought a warmth to the team, she cared enough about Tony to stay in isolation with him. If you refuse to own seasons 1 & 2 then you lose.........you will never be able to understand what the team means to each other. Kate was a wonderful addition to the team when it was forming, and when she died so did a piece of Gibbs, Abby, Ducky, MaGee, and especially Tony. Because of Kate and the rest of the Gibbles I will own all the seasons of NCIS........because they all go together. NCIS did not start being good because Ziva joined them......it was always a great show!

FeministaK
Jun 17 2008, 11:43 AM EDT
I did watch NCIS before Ziva, and it wasn't that great. Good for you for owning all seasons, that's your perogative, I however choose not to. And therefore, since I have seen seasons 1 and 2, I do not loose.

dragonwind
Jun 17 2008, 12:58 PM EDT
When I said "you lose" it was not meant as an attack. It was merely my opinion of the way you said that you did not like Kate. I meant that if you do not choose to own seasons one & two that you would lose a part of the story plot that helped form the early team into a close knit family, nothing more. If I was wrong in saying it the way I did I apologize.....it wasn't meant to be a putdown or anything negative.

NCISlover161
Jun 17 2008, 1:39 PM EDT
ok, cool sorry for being a bit 'uppity' about it ..... :)

#1hotchfan
Jun 17 2008, 1:50 PM EDT

"what was she"

Hatman - poking through this thread and having responded myself I must say you need to be more clear whose post you are responding to and what exactly your question is. It is unclear to me what your driving at.

Second - TO ALL - any issues, let a mod know and we'll deal with it. No need for negativity or to draw attention to it. I think people just need to be more clear in their posting on what they are saying and who they are referring to or whose post they are responding to. It does get confusing.



#1hotchfan
Jun 17 2008, 1:52 PM EDT

"When I said "you lose" it was not meant as an attack. It was merely my opinion of the way you said that you did not like Kate. I meant that if you do not choose to own seasons one & two that you would lose a part of the story plot that helped form the early team into a close knit family, nothing more. If I was wrong in saying it the way I did I apologize.....it wasn't meant to be a putdown or anything negative."

Thanks for clarifying that. :)

dani_g
Jun 18 2008, 2:45 PM EDT
Kate's character at the begnning of the show was the one ,who took my attention and made me watch the show.Kate was a great character. Personally, I find a lot of female characters in shows these days very whiny but the reason I like Kate is because she's not like that. I loved the innocense Kate brought to the show.She was the sophisticated woman , who not only had class and was very much girly, could do a lot of things herself. Ziva is different.This lady is quite the excellent actress. And beautiful, agile and armed with the necessary 'killer-instinct' of a Fed. Ziva likes to shock people. She knows how uptight and conservative americans are and she uses this to her advantage to maintain an edge. Sure she's beautiful and exciting,but she's a different kind of woman than Kate and that isn't a bad thing. Differences can be quite beautiful. Ziva is more adventurous than Kate and due to her background as being an Israeli she's more open with her sexuality/flirty.
I personally like Ziva AND Kate. I think Ziva is different from Kate in many ways but shares with Kate the essentials I like: she is responsible, she is not afraid of Gibbs and does not always listen to him. She,like Kate, is her own person-there is NO WAY to compare them. Killing Kate created a dynamic of melancholoy that has been worked into the personas of the team (Gibbs and Tony mostly) and into their dynamic with Ziva. Ziva and Kate's relationships with just about each of the other characters are entirely different.. Kate was usually not as nice to McGee as Ziva is. Kate and Abby were best friens. Abby hated Ziva at first and they they became friends somewhere in the middle of the season.As for Gibbs, he knows Ziva can handle herself.Introducing Ziva gave a whole new dynamic to the show.Ziva is unique and is worthy of a show that has such unique characters as Kate,Gibbs, Tony and the others.


gsr4life
Jun 20 2008, 5:48 PM EDT
i think that people like Ziva for their own reasons, some say that they like hwe cause she has a backbone, others like that she is an ass sometimes and me personally likes her because she has a hand over tony. i have to say i was devestated when Ket was shot and i hate Ari, my friends and i had a haters party about him. ziva is and interesting character and adds character to the bullpen. that best thing is that she can kill tony 13 different ways with a paperclip. ps. that is the best threat ever!
i don't really know who i like better, but i like having a girl ont he team who can rule over tony and scare him just a LITTLE bit, quite refreshing.
sorry fro blabbing on.
gsr4life

surfcity
Jun 20 2008, 6:22 PM EDT
Although I was extremely upset when they offed Kate (and the manner in which they did it), and still am, I have grown to like Ziva and her Mossad and international connection which, I believe, serves to expand their storyline horizon and ultimately, make a better, more complex, intelligent show.

Spike9
Jun 23 2008, 8:58 PM EDT
Ziva is okay but she is no Kate. To this day, when I see Ziva my first thought is it is too bad they offed Kate. :(

howdy25
Jun 25 2008, 10:17 AM EDT
well the only thing i can say is that i didn't start watching ncis until halfway through the fifth season, but i loved it the first time i watched it. so i read about it on this site and other sites and i bought the first season. i watched all of those over and over and continued to watch on tv. i had already knew what happened to kate, so i could accept ziva when ncis was on tv. the next season i got was 3. i had borrowed season 2 from the library already, so i held off on buying that one. i had never seen a season 3 episode. i loved them all. then i got season 4. i had seen about half of those just from repeats during the writers strike. and then, finally, about a week ago, i got the second season. so my collection is complete (until august 26th, any way) and i have seen every episode of ncis. i liked kate because she was tough and stood up for herself when ever some one said she couldn't do something. and i like ziva because she is smart and can make tony speachless. but i won't let either of these characters keep me from watching my favorite tv show. and that is why i own all the seasons.

Scorpio-lady
Jun 25 2008, 10:33 AM EDT

"well the only thing i can say is that i didn't start watching ncis until halfway through the fifth season, but i loved it the first time i watched it. so i read about it on this site and other sites and i bought the first season. i watched all of those over and over and continued to watch on tv. i had already knew what happened to kate, so i could accept ziva when ncis was on tv. the next season i got was 3. i had borrowed season 2 from the library already, so i held off on buying that one. i had never seen a season 3 episode. i loved them all. then i got season 4. i had seen about half of those just from repeats during the writers strike. and then, finally, about a week ago, i got the second season. so my collection is complete (until august 26th, any way) and i have seen every episode of ncis. i liked kate because she was tough and stood up for herself when ever some one said she couldn't do something. and i like ziva because she is smart and can make tony speachless. but i won't let either of these characters keep me from watching my favorite tv show. and that is why i own all the seasons."

Howdy, Howdy25! It's great that you have all of the available four seasons of NCIS now. If you're like me, you will spend hour after happy hour going through all of them over and over *grin*. And, also like me, you will never tire of them because you will keep picking out NEW pieces of information with each time you re-watch them. I can't wait for August 26 to get here! Happy viewing!

Hatman34
Jun 25 2008, 3:45 PM EDT

"Kate was NOT an idiot.....she brought a warmth to the team, she cared enough about Tony to stay in isolation with him. If you refuse to own seasons 1 & 2 then you lose.........you will never be able to understand what the team means to each other. Kate was a wonderful addition to the team when it was forming, and when she died so did a piece of Gibbs, Abby, Ducky, MaGee, and especially Tony. Because of Kate and the rest of the Gibbles I will own all the seasons of NCIS........because they all go together. NCIS did not start being good because Ziva joined them......it was always a great show!"

I thank you. You rock

Hatman34
Jun 25 2008, 3:46 PM EDT

"Hatman - poking through this thread and having responded myself I must say you need to be more clear whose post you are responding to and what exactly your question is. It is unclear to me what your driving at.

Second - TO ALL - any issues, let a mod know and we'll deal with it. No need for negativity or to draw attention to it. I think people just need to be more clear in their posting on what they are saying and who they are referring to or whose post they are responding to. It does get confusing.

"

what was Tony doing with Ziva at her house????????????????

Hatman34
Jun 25 2008, 3:48 PM EDT

"Kate's character at the begnning of the show was the one ,who took my attention and made me watch the show.Kate was a great character. Personally, I find a lot of female characters in shows these days very whiny but the reason I like Kate is because she's not like that. I loved the innocense Kate brought to the show.She was the sophisticated woman , who not only had class and was very much girly, could do a lot of things herself. Ziva is different.This lady is quite the excellent actress. And beautiful, agile and armed with the necessary 'killer-instinct' of a Fed. Ziva likes to shock people. She knows how uptight and conservative americans are and she uses this to her advantage to maintain an edge. Sure she's beautiful and exciting,but she's a different kind of woman than Kate and that isn't a bad thing. Differences can be quite beautiful. Ziva is more adventurous than Kate and due to her background as being an Israeli she's more open with her sexuality/flirty.
I personally like Ziva AND Kate. I think Ziva is different from Kate in many ways but shares with Kate the essentials I like: she is responsible, she is not afraid of Gibbs and does not always listen to him. She,like Kate, is her own person-there is NO WAY to compare them. Killing Kate created a dynamic of melancholoy that has been worked into the personas of the team (Gibbs and Tony mostly) and into their dynamic with Ziva. Ziva and Kate's relationships with just about each of the other characters are entirely different.. Kate was usually not as nice to McGee as Ziva is. Kate and Abby were best friens. Abby hated Ziva at first and they they became friends somewhere in the middle of the season.As for Gibbs, he knows Ziva can handle herself.Introducing Ziva gave a whole new dynamic to the show.Ziva is unique and is worthy of a show that has such unique characters as Kate,Gibbs, Tony and the others.
"

To quote my friend LittlePsychoWolf Ziva is a "Mary-Sue"

Hatman34
Jun 25 2008, 3:50 PM EDT
sorry to quadruple post. My computer crashed so I have not been able to go on in a while

surfcity
Jun 26 2008, 2:50 PM EDT

"I must say you need to be more clear whose post you are responding to...

Second - TO ALL - any issues, let a mod know and we'll deal with it. No need for negativity or to draw attention to it. I think people just need to be more clear in their posting on what they are saying and who they are referring to or whose post they are responding to. It does get confusing.

"

#1HF--It would be helpful in quoting someone else's post and responding to it if the WIKI automatically said something to the effect of (regarding the original post): "Originally posted by ..."

Every other fan board I participate in, except one other, has this capability. Unfortunately, this one does not and is one of its weaknesses.

HobbitKiller
Jul 1 2008, 10:19 PM EDT

"To quote my friend LittlePsychoWolf Ziva is a "Mary-Sue""

Being a "Mary-Sue" implies that a character is perfect to an absurd degree. This is something most often found in the fan fiction community where authors put a perfect version of themselves into a story in order to become the hero and usually date whatever character they think is hot.

Ziva does not fit that description. She has many character flaws like an inability to properly express emotion, a tendency towards violent outbursts, and being quick to jealousy. However, these flaws make the character more appealing, and sometimes amusing, to watch and get to know.

I'm not here to diss Kate. I, too, own seasons one and two on DVD, so I do know a bit of what I'm talking about. She was a fun character, but I've got to stand up for Ziva. She's my favorite because she's fun, can kick major behind, has a conflicted past, and is a unique individual.

Scorpio-lady
Jul 2 2008, 9:25 AM EDT

"Being a "Mary-Sue" implies that a character is perfect to an absurd degree. This is something most often found in the fan fiction community where authors put a perfect version of themselves into a story in order to become the hero and usually date whatever character they think is hot.

Ziva does not fit that description. She has many character flaws like an inability to properly express emotion, a tendency towards violent outbursts, and being quick to jealousy. However, these flaws make the character more appealing, and sometimes amusing, to watch and get to know.

I'm not here to diss Kate. I, too, own seasons one and two on DVD, so I do know a bit of what I'm talking about. She was a fun character, but I've got to stand up for Ziva. She's my favorite because she's fun, can kick major behind, has a conflicted past, and is a unique individual."

Thank you for the definition of a "Mary-Sue". I had NO idea what it meant! And, you're quite right, it does not fit Ziva. Kate was a darling, but Ziva is so much more developed as a character, and that makes her a lot more interesting. She really is a "unique individual", and I like her more and more with each passing season.

dani_g
Jul 26 2008, 3:15 PM EDT

"To quote my friend LittlePsychoWolf Ziva is a "Mary-Sue""

Strange-I have a friend om livejournal,who thinks Ziva is a "Mary-Sue" too.:)I don't think Ziva fit that profile-she doesn't think she is always right.Ziva can't express the good feelings easy -she can express dislike,anger,hate,but not a hug,for example-in that she is a lot like Gibbs.